Anyone see any nets on the lake

What a travesty

gonefishin wrote:

The MN DNR and Tribal DNR came and pulled the net. I was there and have pictures that will make your jaw drop of the waste. Instead of posting the pictures here, I will be seeking professional help in getting this out to the media, politicians, requests for comments from MN/Tribal DNR etc.

I kind of know how this works from DNR/Tribe as in 2013 or 2014 we hooked a net and informed the DNR who came and picked up the net. Hoping to bring this issue out into the open more this time around.

The abandoned net was in a very prominent fishing location for many boats to see. As mentioned I watched for 4 days before calling the DNR.

Thank you sir

saugeye-steve wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>gonefishin wrote:</div>
The MN DNR and Tribal DNR came and pulled the net. I was there and have pictures that will make your jaw drop of the waste. Instead of posting the pictures here, I will be seeking professional help in getting this out to the media, politicians, requests for comments from MN/Tribal DNR etc.

I kind of know how this works from DNR/Tribe as in 2013 or 2014 we hooked a net and informed the DNR who came and picked up the net. Hoping to bring this issue out into the open more this time around.

The abandoned net was in a very prominent fishing location for many boats to see. As mentioned I watched for 4 days before calling the DNR.

Thank you sir

X2

Just remember it’s their heritage and that they are all stewards of the earth.

Stewards of the land??

That’s a good one..

Just plain lazy and a bunch of slobs!! What a total waste!!!!

Somebody should forward this and an explanation of the situation to the White House. The treaties clearly state “at the pleasure of the President”, right? Seems like 45 would be our best ever chance at getting something done about this, he’d probably take care of it just to urine off the Left.

gonefishin wrote:

The MN DNR and Tribal DNR came and pulled the net. I was there and have pictures that will make your jaw drop of the waste. Instead of posting the pictures here, I will be seeking professional help in getting this out to the media, politicians, requests for comments from MN/Tribal DNR etc.

I kind of know how this works from DNR/Tribe as in 2013 or 2014 we hooked a net and informed the DNR who came and picked up the net. Hoping to bring this issue out into the open more this time around.

The abandoned net was in a very prominent fishing location for many boats to see. As mentioned I watched for 4 days before calling the DNR.

Thank you sir x3

Thank you gonefishin for your efforts with this. Just makes my blood boil even thinking about it. Let us know if you need follow-up help… phone calls or letters or whatever.

gonefishin wrote:

The MN DNR and Tribal DNR came and pulled the net. I was there and have pictures that will make your jaw drop of the waste. Instead of posting the pictures here, I will be seeking professional help in getting this out to the media, politicians, requests for comments from MN/Tribal DNR etc.

I kind of know how this works from DNR/Tribe as in 2013 or 2014 we hooked a net and informed the DNR who came and picked up the net. Hoping to bring this issue out into the open more this time around.

The abandoned net was in a very prominent fishing location for many boats to see. As mentioned I watched for 4 days before calling the DNR.

As you said, you kind of know how this works as it has happened numerous times before over the years.

If in fact it was a tribal net, and very likely it was…it is a tribal matter and all will be turned over to the tribal authorities.

End of story.

Tribal jurisdiction is not obligated to release any information to the general public, so don’t be surprised if you don’t hear anything of it again.

At best you might start another PR campaign on social media but I wouldn’t expect to see anything in the “news” media or TV.

We all know by now…this is a political hot potato that few politicians want go near.

Walleyestudent Andy Cox wrote:

As you said, you kind of know how this works as it has happened numerous times before over the years.

If in fact it was a tribal net, and very likely it was…it is a tribal matter and all will be turned over to the tribal authorities.

End of story.

Tribal jurisdiction is not obligated to release any information to the general public, so don’t be surprised if you don’t hear anything of it again.

Andy, with past incidents like this one, do you remember getting a clear confirmation that the net was indeed a tribal net, or is it all complete silence, period?

Walleyestudent Andy Cox wrote:

We all know by now…this is a political hot potato that few politicians want go near.

Which politicians are you talking about? Tribal or other?

The problem here is that a) Was there even any law broken under TRIBAL law? Are the Indians required by tribal law to attend to nets, mark nets with the owner’s info, etc? Does the MLB even have a “wanton waste” law on thier books?

Again we are up against the problem that Minnesota politicians, be they state or local, and the MN DNR have ZERO say in what the Indians do and how they do it. Doesn’t matter what our politicians might like to do, the Indians are a soverign nation and can do whatever they want.

Grouse

pool2fool wrote:

Andy, with past incidents like this one, do you remember getting a clear confirmation that the net was indeed a tribal net, or is it all complete silence, period?

I’m sure there was a clear confirmation that the nets were tribal and in some cases that was confirmed publicly. Whether the individual net owners were ever identified or not, that information I’ve never seen released to the general public.

TheFamousGrouse wrote:

The problem here is that a) Was there even any law broken under TRIBAL law? Are the Indians required by tribal law to attend to nets, mark nets with the owner’s info, etc? Does the MLB even have a “wanton waste” law on thier books?

Grouse

Grouse, the answer to all of those questions is yes. And not just the Mille Lacs band, but all tribal game laws.

Despite what some may argue, I do believe that the Tribal law enforcement and DNR are committed to enforcing their game and fish laws. I do not believe they are all that irresponsible.

Furthermore, I think the tribal leaders and Elders very much frown upon these kinds of incidents as it only reflects even worse in the court of public opinion as to the netting activity. This would be a significant embarrassment not only to the specific band but all the native tribes.

My guess is that they are looking for the “netting party” that could claim those nets.

I’d actually have to agree with Grouse that very likely that no tribal laws have been violated.

This is the root of all the issues at Mille Lacs; that the 1836 treaty creates a situation where the State fish and game regulations do not apply to band members.

The issue that I personally would like to see addressed here (any coverage would be helpful) is that if they truly were monitoring the netting as closely as we are led to believe since “Each and every fish netted is accounted for” then how is it possible that nobody noticed a net missing for several days? I would love to learn more about the actual GLFWIC process for how they track each and every net placed in the lake and find out what went wrong in this instance.

Will

Will Roseberg wrote:

I’d actually have to agree with Grouse that very likely that no tribal laws have been violated.

It’s in here…

http://www.glifwc.org/Regulations/MN37ConservationCode.2016.pdf

Thanks Andy, I was looking for that information.

Appears law was clearly broken.

(12) Except as otherwise provided in Subs. (2)(c), no member shall fail to lift any
gillnet at least two times in each continuous 24 hour period during which the net is set, or
more frequently as water temperatures may require so as
to avoid the spoilage of any fish
taken by the net.

What really bothers me is that this net was not lost. It was not like it had floated out into deep water or came lose from the buoys/floats. It was set in under 4′ water and within a couple of hundred yards of a very prominent land structure. Near impossible for the owner to miss.

I’d like to learn more of the Tribes practice to prevent invasive species

This post is about netting, if you would like chase that down, please don’t hi-jack this post and start a different post.

You found it gonefishin.

There is this;

(8) No member shall fish with any gillnet unless the gillnet is marked in compliance with the following provisions:
(a) Each gillnet shall be marked with two flags or floats, one on each end;
(b) Each flag pole shall be two feet or more above the water and have a diameter of two-and-one-half inches or less;
(c) Each flag shall be white and ten inches square or larger; or
(d) Each float shall be visible from shore;
(e) A net shall have attached securely to it an identification tag issued by the Department of Natural Resources showing the band member’s identification number.

So it appears the net was initially placed in compliance based on what you observed and photographed.

But here is another violation;

3.03 Waste of Natural Resources.
No member shall unreasonably waste, injure, destroy, or impair natural resources while engaging in the exercise of treaty rights regulated by this ordinance.

As far as why it was abandoned…I can only speculate. Historically there have been a number of member GLFWIC bands from out of state that have exercised the treaty harvest on Mille Lacs. Could be it was one of those visiting band members that set the net and then for whatever reason had to get the heck out of Dodge in a hurry.

gonefishin wrote:

This post is about netting, if you would like chase that down, please don’t hi-jack this post and start a different post.

I agree, hence the question. Does anyone know the methods used to prevent nets from spreading invasive species? I know I’m in a betting thread, so thanks for stating the obvious.

Threads like this really makes one wonder why some of us are so anti netting.

chomps wrote:

I agree, hence the question. Does anyone know the methods used to prevent nets from spreading invasive species? I know I’m in a betting thread, so thanks for stating the obvious.

If you took the time to read through the regulation document I provided the link for, you’d have found the answer on your own.

Since you’re looking to take the easy road (or perhaps stir the pot), I have provided the regulations as they read from the document.

(c) No member shall take any wild animal from infested waters for bait purposes.

(d) No member shall fail to:

(i) dry for a minimum of 10 days or freeze for a minimum of 2 days before use in noninfested waters any net or associated piece of equipment, including any trap, buoy, anchor, stake or line;

(ii) remove all aquatic vegetation from nets or associated equipment when they are removed from infested waters; or

(iii) notify the Commissioner or a Band or Commission warden when removing nets from infested waters and before re-setting those nets in noninfested waters.

(e) No member shall use water from infested waters to transport fish without a permit from the Commissioner.

(f) No member leaving infested waters identified as having populations of zebra mussels or spiny water flea shall fail to drain bait containers, other boating related equipment holding water, and livewells and bilges by removing the drain plug before transporting the watercraft and associated equipment on public roads.

(g) No member shall transport infested waters on a public road or off property riparian to infested waters except as otherwise authorized by Minnesota state law or under special permit issued by the Commissioner, and no member shall divert infested waters except in compliance with Minnesota state law or in accordance with a special permit issued by the Commissioner.

Dutchboy wrote:

Threads like this really makes one wonder why some of us are so anti netting.

I’ve never been anti-netting wholesale, but situations like this — especially if swept under the rug as suggested — make it impossible to deny that some level of change is necessary. Still comes down to… is it possible? A shift in power and accountability is never easy, and status quo is.

pool2fool wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Dutchboy wrote:</div>
Threads like this really makes one wonder why some of us are so anti netting.

I’ve never been anti-netting wholesale, but situations like this — especially if swept under the rug as suggested — make it impossible to deny that some level of change is necessary. Still comes down to… is it possible? A shift in power and accountability is never easy, and status quo is.

You’ve got a better chance of being struck by lightning while lying on your basement floor on a sunny day than seeing any change or increased efforts to police netting practices.

Unfortunately the MNDNR and state cannot police a group that they do not have jurisdiction over. The effectiveness of turning these “cases” over to the tribal courts is on par with throwing a complaint form in the trash can.

What a screwed up system. And we wonder why there is such tensions that exist between the two groups. It’s situations like these, that never get resolved, that fuel the hate.

lindyrig79 wrote:

What a screwed up system. And we wonder why there is such tensions that exist between the two groups. It’s situations like these, that never get resolved, that fuel the hate.

I on the other hand look towards the near genocide of a race of people as the source of tension between these two groups, but I get what you’re saying, walleye netting is a pretty big deal too.

philtickelson wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>lindyrig79 wrote:</div>
What a screwed up system. And we wonder why there is such tensions that exist between the two groups. It’s situations like these, that never get resolved, that fuel the hate.

I on the other hand look towards the near genocide of a race of people as the source of tension between these two groups, but I get what you’re saying, walleye netting is a pretty big deal too.

For thousands of years, groups of humans have taken over countries, claimed land, destroyed villages, had wars, ect. We can’t change the past. But if you want racism to go away and have equality for all, then we need to live in the present. These treaty laws are severely out-dated, plain and simple.

pool2fool wrote:

I’ve never been anti-netting wholesale, but situations like this — especially if swept under the rug as suggested — make it impossible to deny that some level of change is necessary.

Just because you are not advised of something does not mean it is swept under the rug.

lindyrig79 wrote:

It’s situations like these, that never get resolved, that fuel the hate.

You don’t know that these situations don’t get resolved. Sure, there clearly appears to have been violations but you cannot say this or any previous are not charged and prosecuted in the tribal courts.

Breaking laws is inclusive of all races.

The netting permit is only issued with the identification. I do believe the tribal DNR and law enforcement take these matters seriously. I don’t think that they take the position that “oh, he’s a tribal member too who just happened to leave his nets in the water for over a week…we’ll just let that go”.

Obviously there are tensions but when laws are broken, why should we just assume they go unpunished because it happens to be tribal?

Perhaps my opinion is unpopular but I try to stay objective in that…no, the tribal members cannot just do whatever they want.

Andy, I agree with you that most people in any given society are not to blame for a few bad apples. However some sort of public statement from the Tribe expressing their disdain for this behavior, as well as the outcome would go a long way. We don’t need names and addresses, simply saying “the offender was fined $XXX and will not be allowed to net for X years” would be enough to satisfy most of us. When you have a group of people who have a special privilege that most disagree with, and those people are able to abuse that privilege with no visible consequences, it’s only going to cause negative opinions and criticism to form.

By not making the general public aware of what they’re doing to take care of this situation, they’re effectively sweeping it under the rug. Even if they do pursue and prosecute the offender, you, I, and none of the rest of us have any knowledge of that. They’re making the choice to not inform the public, which not only is different from how traditional law enforcement would handle the situation, but it’s frankly a mistake on their part, considering they need all the good PR they can get.

Which causes greater harm

A. Thousands and thousands of 14″ fish coming up from 30′, or giving way too much time on slip bobbers or livebait rigs and watching fish swim away with hooks in their bellies, or maybe reeling in a fish 150′ out on lead in the summer months.

Or

B. One net of fish.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
But of course there are principles involved here.

TMF89 wrote:

Andy, I agree with you that most people in any given society are not to blame for a few bad apples. However some sort of public statement from the Tribe expressing their disdain for this behavior, as well as the outcome would go a long way. We don’t need names and addresses, simply saying “the offender was fined $XXX and will not be allowed to net for X years” would be enough to satisfy most of us. When you have a group of people who have a special privilege that most disagree with, and those people are able to abuse that privilege with no visible consequences, it’s only going to cause negative opinions and criticism to form.

By not making the general public aware of what they’re doing to take care of this situation, they’re effectively sweeping it under the rug. Even if they do pursue and prosecute the offender, you, I, and none of the rest of us have any knowledge of that. They’re making the choice to not inform the public, which not only is different from how traditional law enforcement would handle the situation, but it’s frankly a mistake on their part, considering they need all the good PR they can get.

Totally agree.