Anybody ever invent anything?

A buddy and I have came up with an outdoor/ATV product. As far as we know we have not seen or heard of anything quite like it and the prototype worked well for him and I this summer. We checked into a patent and we both feel the money spent on a patent would take us forever to recoup and quite frankly may never because when people see the product many with a welder and means to cut steel will duplicate it. Also we do not have the time or money to mass produce it. I was wondering if any of you have ever invented anything, and how you marketed it. Also if we took our product to an outdoor company like Otter Outdoors, or Clam to try an sell our idea is there any way we can protect ourselves so they don’t say that’s a good idea and take our idea and screw us out of it? Just checking with ‘y’all….. y’all seem pretty smart. Whatcha think?

Thanks, Drifter.

My grandfather was a very brilliant man but apparently had a terrible head for business. He invented a portable electric coffee maker 2 years before Mr. Coffee came out with their design. I dont think he could figure out a way to produce it successfully and his product never took off. As to what you actually asked about im sorry but i cant help you there lol. Hope you learn more though about how to protect your idea! If you dont have the means to mass produce it yourself i imagine partnering with a manufacturer would be a good way to go as long as they dont take too much of a cut so as to rub you out of whats yours

Let your fingers do the walking thru the yellow pages and find a patent attorney. Spend a few bucks and get legal advice.

I spent a few thousand dollars on a help you invent firm and nothing ever materialized from it. At the end of the day, R&D costs plus invention firm costs still cost me between $4,000 and $5,000. But you can’t win if you don’t play.

All the help you invent firms sell your idea to big firms that have the resources to produce and sell the product. The pay out is either a one time buyout or a percentage of profits.

The beauty of the invent firms is that they legally protect your idea and they know 100’s of companies to reach out to with the idea. And their cost is a lot less than an actual patent.

Document, document, document.

Find ways to prove your idea and plans with a date. Just because you don’t have a patent, it doesn’t mean someone can steal your idea. If you went to a manufacturer and they stole your idea, you could sue them.

If it’s really good….Shark Tank. But be prepared to give up 5% of your company to just be on the show. Even if you don’t make a deal with the sharks someone will see you on tv.
But it needs to have a patent prior.

BTW I invented the mens portable hair dryer 5 or so years before they came out. Unfortunately most people didn’t see the value in a hose on the back side of a vacuum cleaner.

Myself, have personally invented hundreds if not thousands of items, but everytime I Google the idea it’s been invented a dozen times over.

For my own ego I still take some credit….

Take picture, drawings, and document as descriptive as possible the product. Then put it in a sealed envelope and mail it to yourself. When you get it back in the mail, leave it sealed and put it away. Now you’ll have a date stamp that would be recognized in court. That will help in the short term.

Next you want to consult with a patent attorneys. Besides determining if you need a utility or design patent, you have other options while you explore selling your idea.

I know a couple fabricating companies and can facilitate having them look at your prototype after you get your legal stuff done

nhamm wrote:

Myself, have personally invented hundreds if not thousands of items, but everytime I Google the idea it’s been invented a dozen times over.
For my own ego I still take some credit….

Same here
I was once told if you take all the notes and pictures of your product you can and mail two copies of it to yourself. Don’t ever open it up. The mail will date stamp the packages for you. If you do run into a problem with someone using your design after you try to sell it to them. You can give one of the packages to a layer and have him open it, save the other for the judge. Not sure how this would all play out. But it was how I was told to make a poor man’s patent.

Looks like Randy types faster than me.

A poor man’s patent is worthless though unless you are in the process of getting a patent. Just having the documentation that you already thought of the idea means nothing and doesn’t stop other people from making it and selling it.

The new rules (2013) on patents went from “first-to-invent” to a “first-inventor-to-file.” Engineering notebooks (dates) no longer matter. Also, remember if you do go the patent route, you get to pay yearly fees as well to keep the patent active.

Randy Wieland wrote:

e picture, drawings, and document as descriptive as possible the product. Then put it in a sealed envelope and mail it to yourself. When you get it back in the mail, leave it sealed and put it away. Now you’ll have a date stamp that would be recognized in court. That will help in the short term.

Or you can just document everything and then get it notarized.

Google: “In order to have something notarized, you must bring your documentation to a notary public. Notary publics work at post offices, mail centers, packaging and shipping centers, libraries and legal offices.”

Drifter, I work for an IP law firm. I can send you the contact info of one of our attorney’s if you would like.

Migz wrote:

The new rules (2013) on patents went from “first-to-invent” to a “first-inventor-to-file.” Engineering notebooks (dates) no longer matter. Also, remember if you do go the patent route, you get to pay yearly fees as well to keep the patent active.

^^^ This.

The only way to protect your idea and therefore to make it saleable is to have a patent. Without a patent you can’t protect it and it’s the protection from use by others that gives it value.

At work, we hold several patents for IT and software innovations. I’m not sure what you heard about cost, but IMO they really aren’t that expensive IMO.

Also, I think a patent gives a certain “seriousness” to a product that makes it more valuable in the eyes of a potential business that may want to use it.

Grouse

Migz wrote:

Also, remember if you do go the patent route, you get to pay yearly fees as well to keep the patent active.

In order to keep a patent in-force (active/alive), maintenance fees will need to be paid. However, the first maintenance fee is not due until 3 1/2 years after the patent issues. No yearly fees.

The government fee for filing a patent application is $400-800 for an independent inventor or small company. Attorney costs can vary.

You will want to apply for a provisional patent first… That basically documents that you have the idea.. Usually around $1500. That will buy you time to do you R & D and to find out what ultimate manufacturing costs will be,, what kind of market you have and ultimately,,, who you will sell your product through. That provisional is good for 1 year but the great thing is that you could have it within a few weeks. If you don’t want to continue after that you simply let it expire. IF you want to continue you will then apply for a permanent patent and that costs more $$. PM me if you want more specifics and I’d be happy to guide you on your way…

One thing I do know is this… If you and your buddy decide not to do this because of money and time and then you see your product kicking tail in the market 7 years from now you will not have a bigger financial regret in your lifetime..

Patents are worthless unless you have deep pockets to protect them.
FYI – Attorneys love them!

If you have a few hours to kill I can explain.

Oh my could I fill your ear fulllllll …..

I/we introduced a product called a “Bucketrack” that held 3 five gallon buckets off the back of a 4 wheeler back in the early 2000’s. We started with the provisional patent and sold like crazy at the Gamefair and St. Paul ice show. We had plenty of customers and we were finding ways to reduce our cost every month. So, YES the american dream is still possible!

What you’re trying to do is skip the middle and take your million dollar idea right to the bank and cash out. Not impossible but very hard to do because you don’t have a business plan for you product to sell with it. You have to take the time to do the research to prove you have a marketable product for their company.

The rest of the story….
Our product was almost instantly being copied when we hit the market. People didn’t care if I had a patent or not. I had guys that would come up to our booth with a tape measure and start measuring so they could build it at there shop. Mad Dog gear, Ryans Racks, Artic Cat bucket holder. Heck there is even a guy right now on the internet that stole OUR name added a “s” and is marketing a similar product!!!!! There are no Midwest Morals in the outdoor retail world. If someone thinks they can make a buck the will take and run with it until they are stopped. This includes the big box companies.

The good thing is I started and stopped making a great product that I still to this day get calls on to make more!!!! My buddy and I are still great friends and I love America!!!!!

Eelpoutguy wrote:

Patents are worthless unless you have deep pockets to protect them.
FYI – Attorneys love them!
If you have a few hours to kill I can explain.

Coming from experience and recently [almost] going through this, this statement couldn’t be more right. Unless you are selling a super high volume of product (and the copier is selling high volumes) with a very good patent covering it, fighting it will more than likely bankrupt yourself. Yes, there are tons of more variables to this but this was our case. Enforcing patents does nothing but make lawyers richer.

If you don’t go the patent route your a sitting duck. Especially, if its a product thats easy to reproduce. I have many patents on some physical products but mainly on technology and have recouped most of the costs on infringements alone. The best advice i can give you is to go pay a lawyer to pick his brain before you talk to anyone about specifics or future plans/wants. The lawyer i use charges me around 100 bucks an hour to talk law and ideas. At the point where your at, thats the best money spend as far as long term investments.

BE SMART AND NOT GREEDY

– I wish I had pantented this internet thing.

Randy Wieland wrote:

Take picture, drawings, and document as descriptive as possible the product. Then put it in a sealed envelope and mail it to yourself. When you get it back in the mail, leave it sealed and put it away. Now you’ll have a date stamp that would be recognized in court. That will help in the short term.

Next you want to consult with a patent attorneys. Besides determining if you need a utility or design patent, you have other options while you explore selling your idea.

I know a couple fabricating companies and can facilitate having them look at your prototype after you get your legal stuff done

notary. Any bank.

Just saw Joe beat me to it!

Brian Klawitter wrote:

BTW I invented the mens portable hair dryer 5 or so years before they came out. Unfortunately most people didn’t see the value in a hose on the back side of a vacuum cleaner.

I thought you invented the “Flowbee”

Thanks guys! A lot to ponder for sure….. just waiting on a part to arrive and we got the first 20 ready to go!

For no particular reason…… What do yo have for an ATV,What size is your receiver hitch, and what’s the ground clearance to the bottom of the receiver?…….lol.

You should check in to a provisional patent like mentioned earlier. That way changes can be made to the product. Then turn around and talk to some of the local universities. They are always looking for senior projects for engineering and business majors. UW stout is close to the cities and a good engineering school always looking for new projects.

Unfortunately we live in a dog-eat-dog world and the big dogs have the game rigged against the little dogs.

I would suggest to set income goals along the way. $1, $100, $500 etc. or whatever you need to cover your monthly nut (expenses).

Most people are better off staying under the radar of the big dogs. When you start taking mid 6 digits out of their potential income, they will spend whatever it takes to destroy you.

Keep a close eye on ROI for everything you do. No other metrics really matter except ROI.