Anglers Surpass Mille Lacs Walleye Quota; Season To Remain Open

We have all been waiting for a politician to do something about the situation on Mille Lacs. Finally we have a Governor who is willing to do the right thing!

The walleyes I have caught seem very healthy and I have taken great care to make sure they are released quickly the dnr is not accurate in their mortality calculations
The populations appears to be very healthy to me based in the fish I have caught.
They need to change their hook mortality calculation estimates
I certainly do not think we have killed that many walleyes based on catch and release
Mother Nature will take care of itself if we just stop trying to over mange things

Will Roseberg wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Fife wrote:</div>
I’m aware of these studies going on, but there are still unanswered questions:

1. How are they monitoring angling hours?
2. Are they using this new study or the old model(20% of fish die with water temps over 70)?

They are Still using last years model for calculated mortality BUT they know based on studies this year that it’s way off… I think that is part of how they are justifying this move behind closed doors.

They need to clarify what’s going on from a scientifically based model that works, or communicate their political, business, tribal, fisheries agenda to the parties involved why they are managing a resource with no clarity. Get out from behind closed doors and shed some actual light on the situations regulatory process. Admit you are cluless and your models are nothing more than pure projections or future based commodity trading with little factual based conjecture on what’s going to happen other than likely probabilities. I could respect and appreciate that. What they are doing now is killing them in the political and theatrical arena of public opinion.

This is baffling how they are wavering all over the map!

If the safe cpr mortality has been reached, shut the lake down.

If it has, yet your model and ways of managing the lake are skewed and flatulence in the wind, people already know that. So stop trying to justify stuff with bs and call a spade a spade. They are loosing all kinds of credibility by the fact they are basically admitting their ways of studying and managing stuff is a joke and they won’t even adhere to their own policies. How can we as anglers, businesses or the tribal people trust this agency even kind of? I for one can’t.

Granted we all get it, it is a tough row to hoe, but that’s their job and what they are paid to do. I will give them some slack and totally comprehend it is a gigantic crap-oh-lah storm. But at some point in all this there’s got to be a shred or ounce of accountability and even credibility. There’s none currently. The dnr needs to stop licking its finger and putting it into the wind and start putting some actual science behind their grand theories and idiotic hypothesis.

Extremely past frustrated

basseyes wrote:

They need to clarify what’s going on from a scientifically based model that works, or communicate their political, business, tribal, fisheries agenda to the parties involved why they are managing a resource with no clarity. Get out from behind closed doors and shed some actual light on the situations regulatory process. Admit you are cluless and your models are nothing more than pure projections or future based commodity trading with little factual based conjecture on what’s going to happen other than likely probabilities. I could respect and appreciate that. What they are doing now is killing them in the political and theatrical arena of public opinion.

This is baffling how they are wavering all over the map!

If the safe cpr mortality has been reached, shut the lake down.

If it has, yet your model and ways of managing the lake are skewed and flatulence in the wind, people already know that. So stop trying to justify stuff with bs and call a spade a spade. They are loosing all kinds of credibility by the fact they are basically admitting their ways of studying and managing stuff is a joke and they won’t even adhere to their own policies. How can we as anglers, businesses or the tribal people trust this agency even kind of? I for one can’t.

Granted we all get it, it is a tough row to hoe, but that’s their job and what they are paid to do. I will give them some slack and totally comprehend it is a gigantic crap-oh-lah storm. But at some point in all this there’s got to be a shred or ounce of accountability and even credibility. There’s none currently. The dnr needs to stop licking its finger and putting it into the wind and start putting some actual science behind their grand theories and idiotic hypothesis.

Extremely past frustrated

Keep in mind…the DNR is just the agency, NOT the authority. Reality is they are no more than these and will jerk whichever way the string is pulled. Question has always been, who’s pulling the strings?

Attachments:

1. 

   dnrpuppet.jpg
   

Hate to break it to anyone, but Mille Lacs has been managed by politics since 1999. It’s just good to see our politicians managing it on our (average Minnesotan’s) behalf for once. I give Dayton credit for this (and I am not a fan of his in general). WalleyeStudent’s pic sums it up nicely, except the DNR is a much more expensive puppet.

I don’t think I can ever accept that politics is the right way to manage biology. Studies in science are the correct way. I won’t disagree that politics has been running the show. The politics is why we keep seeing the waffling. I just won’t roll over and accept it because it is the wrong way to do things.

I’ll leave you with this quote then step away from the political bent this discussion has taken.
“Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the
government take care of him better take a closer look at the American
Indian.” Henry Ford

The lake is receiving 1/1000 or less of the normal fishing pressure and almost no Walleyes have been keep for the last few years. The Few people who are fishing the lake these days have been having some good catch #’s and now everyone says everyone was wrong. The lake is in Great shape. The DNR over reacted. I don’t have to look back here on the site to far to find all the post from People saying ” Mille Lacs is dead, They have killed our lake, It should have never gotten to this point , Ect, Ect, Ect. ” To me the more Walleyes that survive this year, The more walleyes there is to spawn next year. Why not error on the safe side and just stick with the plan for the season. I doubt that the business lost from Mid August thru the remaining fishing season will make or Break all the local businesses. If the situation up there has not already destroyed the local businesses, a few more months will not. All of this is my .02 worth. I know all you Walleye Guru’s know far better than everyone else how to Manage YOUR lake.

Just so People don’t think I’m just a Bass guy and don’t care about the walleye situation on Mille Lacs. I grew up in the Mille Lacs area and spent a great deal of time enjoying walleye fishing on the lake. I still have lots of friends who fish the lake often. I’m no different than everyone else on here. I’d love to see the lake return to the glory days of the past. Like almost everyone else here I have my Own thoughts on how best to make that happen. I think we can all agree that we all want the same thing here – The problem is no one can agree on how best to make that happen. Sorry if anything I’ve said has offended or upset anyone – That was not my intention.

fishthumper wrote:

The lake is receiving 1/1000 or less of the normal fishing pressure and almost no <em class=”ido-tag-em”>Walleyes have been keep for the last few years. The Few people who are fishing the lake these days have been having some good catch #’s and now everyone says everyone was wrong. The lake is in Great shape. The DNR over reacted. I don’t have to look back here on the site to far to find all the post from People saying ” Mille Lacs is dead, They have killed our lake, It should have never gotten to this point , Ect, Ect, Ect. ” To me the more Walleyes that survive this year, The more walleyes there is to spawn next year. Why not error on the safe side and just stick with the plan for the season. I doubt that the business lost from Mid August thru the remaining fishing season will make or Break all the local businesses. If the situation up there has not already destroyed the local businesses, a few more months will not. All of this is my .02 worth. I know all you Walleye Guru’s know far better than everyone else how to Manage YOUR lake.

I’m really not trying o shoot down your thoughts as you are welcome to them but unless you are close to the situation on that lake you really need to stop. It is everyone’s lake and not just a select few for one thing. Secondly the fishing pressure this year is not 1/1000th of the typical pressure. It’s actually better than I would have expected. Lots of rigs in the lots (and plenty of people paying that $10 launch fee to the resorts that can really use it…). Look at it this way…You say that shutting things down for a few months will not “make or break” the resorts. Try taking off 3-6 months off of work and tell me how that goes over in your household. Try using common sense…RR

fishthumper wrote:

I know all you Walleye Guru’s know far better than everyone else how to Manage YOUR lake.

this wasn’t meant to upset anyone….now that is some funny chit right there.

…one more thing. Go sit down at the bar at lets say Twin Pines and ask them about how shutting things down would effect their already tough business. Ask them about how much income they lose when they don’t send out those launches. Ask them about the 9 hotel rooms that are currently full and would sit empty for 6 months. Beer? They make good money on that $3 Coors Light that you would be drinking that otherwise they would not sell. Sorry but comments like you made tick me off when your not close to the situation. These people are hurting and what the Gov did is keeping the money trail coming in (albeit a smaller than usual money trail…). Their heads can stay above water. Rant over…RR

RR
Please define for me what is needed to qualify for ” close to the situation on that lake ”

As far as it is everyone’s lake – You are correct, It is. Therefor everyone is entitled to have a opinion. Not just those people who own a property on the lake or those who fish the lake more often.

As far as taking 3-6 Month off of work and seeing how it goes at my house – I can assure you that if I did, I’d not be losing my house over it. If others would, I’d say they are living life far to close to the edge. Keep in mind that walleye fishing isn’t or should not be local businesses only income source. If it is, My bet is they are already out of business. Try using that common sense

Do me a favor – Taking the Netting out of the equation ( not much likely to get changed anytime soon there ) How would you manage the current situation on Mille Lacs at the current time and in the near future? Lets say you have the ability to set the rules for the 2017 fishing season. I don’t want pieces cut and pasted from 100 other peoples post – Just your thoughts:
Season, Limits, Slots, Night fishing, How and who tracks the #’s of fish being caught and the overall health of the lake, Ect.

Good rebuttal Thumper…

RR… I recently moved out of the state, but continue to fish the lake, and own a fish house at one of the Resorts that I enjoy using..I spend alot time and money in the area..I buy 3 non resident annual licences for my family just to fish Mille Lacs….. Does that qualify me as being “close to the situation on the lake”?
Does that make me qualified enough to even comment or care about the lake or have thoughts on the problems either?

Not sure what “qualifies” you to tell someone to stop voicing their opinions on the lake.

Kyhl wrote:

I don’t think I can ever accept that politics is the right way to manage biology.

Agreed, however that is the current situation. This is the first time, imo, that your Average Minnesotan’s politicians have stood up against the tribe, since the court case was lost. Until there aren’t 2 parties involved in the management, it will continue to be managed politically.

fishthumper wrote:

Why not error on the safe side and just stick with the plan for the season.

Thumper, what of the past 17 years of management leads you to believe there is a long term plan? The whole point of fisheries management is to balance the health of the resource (supply) against the demand on it. As far as anyone who’s been on the lake this year can tell, and evidently the DNR studies this summer support, the supply being sufficient for continued fishing this year.

fishthumper wrote:

As far as taking 3-6 Month off of work and seeing how it goes at my house – I can assure you that if I did, I’d not be losing my house over it. If others would, I’d say they are living life far to close to the edge. Keep in mind that walleye fishing isn’t or should not be local businesses only income source. If it is, My bet is they are already out of business. Try using that common sense

I’m not going to try to get in between you two but did want to offer my thought on this piece. Few business owners around Lake Mille Lacs have ever gotten rich. The majority are small low end businesses that have catered to the predominately “blue collar” clientele for generations. There are few high end establishments on the lake and many even in good years probably did not take away big cash reserves. Many of the establishments are one dimensional, offering only launch services or ice house rentals. A lot of their reserves typically went back into the business for repairs, upgrades, etc. so don’t compare to your (or anyone’s) household.
Secondly, Mille Lacs is basically a micro-economy. To suggest that ” walleye fishing isn’t or should not be local businesses only income source.”, try telling that mining to an iron ranger in Hibbing, or Eveleth that they should have prepared better. Most resource based economies are limited in what they can do.
That being said, I have seen several businesses make viable attempts at diversifying and offering other attractions and to a different demographic than just fisherman. Times change and the lake and region will change too.

Andy

BigWerm wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Kyhl wrote:</div>
I don’t think I can ever accept that politics is the right way to manage biology.

Agreed, however that is the current situation. This is the first time, imo, that your Average Minnesotan’s politicians have stood up against the tribe, since the court case was lost. Until there aren’t 2 parties involved in the management, it will continue to be managed politically.

I guess I don’t see anyone standing up to the tribes here. I see them as going against the rules that were set by the DNR. So this is the Gov going against the rules that his DNR chief set, therefore, the governor going against himself. The rules were supposed to be based on biology. The rule was the DNR decided on a safe harvest limit for the year with the thought that going over that limit would cause harm to the future of the lake. So now they say we past that limit.

Willy nilly overriding the DNR without explanation does not mean things are suddenly fixed in my book.

If you want to make an argument that the DNR rules were set based on bad data, then I may agree based on the anecdotal evidence that I’ve seen this summer. Until proven otherwise, I’m with the tribes on this one when they ask, where is the evidence that would support overriding the original plan?

I’m not keen on setting a precedent of allowing any sitting governor to have the power to set fishing regulations as he sees fit. That should be the purpose of the DNR and hopefully based on science.
They should show us the science that says that the safe harvest limit was set too small.
Or they should show us the science that says the DNR’s original model was flawed.
Until then, I think they should stick with the original plan until disproven.

On another topic, it does seem that the DNR has become too politically motivated. I’ve written my congressman before to express this concern. I’d suggest others that feel that way should also contract their congressmen about it.

Andy, your thoughts are very common sense approached and for that much appreciated by myself.

What part of “you are welcome to your thoughts” didn’t you understand??? Done w/ the back n forth. Just go up there and ask the resorts their opinion and then come on back my friend. It’s bleak at best. My opinion on what I think as far as the limits and the such is irrelevant???

Bottom line is that the DNR screwed up by not letting folks keep at a minimum 1 fish this year in a healthy lake. Their #’s were WAY off and that is on them. Eno from Twin Pines is on the board and has been telling them that their #’s were off a year ago but because they are who they are they didn’t listen. Now we have a situation where we have a healthy lake and it is C/R only. A broken system…

Andy is correct…They do need to adjust to the hand that has been dealt them and the one’s that don’t will not make it…RR

fishthumper wrote:

As far as taking 3-6 Month off of work and seeing how it goes at my house – I can assure you that if I did, I’d not be losing my house over it. If others would, I’d say they are living life far to close to the edge. Keep in mind that walleye fishing isn’t or should not be local businesses only income source. If it is, My bet is they are already out of business. Try using that common sense.

First imagine that you’ve worked for macdonalds for the past 3 years by government order. Then take 3-6 months off. Still gonna keep your house?

In response to us anglers calling Mille Lacs the Dead Sea the last few years, I know I never went that far but I did say numbers were way down. Two years ago the fish weren’t in all of their usuall spots, when when found they could be caught in good numbers. Later in the year things got tough(probably a result of the 2013 Walleyes to eat). Last year fishing again was spotty but far from good. I was one saying something is wrong here. Then July hit and those little 7-10″ 2013 year class fish started biting like crazy. I’m no biologist, but a 7-10″ Walleye seems like it would be vulnerable to predation and hooking mortality so I can see some reasoning behind closing the lake last year. Although fishing pressure historically drops off significantly that time of year.

That brings us to this year. They had Fall netting data, but maybe they didn’t have enough evidence to conclude that a good number of the 2013 fish survived. What I believe they did miss calculate was number of 20-30″ fish in the system. Now that the surveys are in and we’ve seen the fishing I think it’s safe to say that those 2013 fish did survive in good numbers. There are more fish than the DNR thought. I still argue it’s not as good as it once was, but it is nowhere near requiring a shut down to protect the resource. Remember also that many people are not asking for the 4-6 fish limits of old, just simply 1-2 fish to take home.

RR
2 more points and I’m going to leave this post alone:

1. If you think a 1 fish Limit this year would make 1 bit of difference to the local economy – I’m not sure what common sense you are using.

2. Complaining without offering a solution is whining !!!!

biggill wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>fishthumper wrote:</div>
As far as taking 3-6 Month off of work and seeing how it goes at my house – I can assure you that if I did, I’d not be losing my house over it. If others would, I’d say they are living life far to close to the edge. Keep in mind that walleye fishing isn’t or should not be local businesses only income source. If it is, My bet is they are already out of business. Try using that common sense.

First imagine that you’ve worked for macdonalds for the past 3 years by government order. Then take 3-6 months off. Still gonna keep your house?

First of all I don’t know of any businesses being forced to do business or fishermen being forced to fish under court order on Mille Lacs – So I have no idea where you are going with that ????
Second I can bet you if I had been forced to work at Macdonalds for many years under good working conditions before taking 3-6 month off I’d sure end up being able to keep my house.

Ask the resorts about that 1 fish limit…Your avoiding of talking to the resorts speaks volumes…

Offer a solution is laughable since I am not the one making the decisions…

3-6 months off of work? Glad you can afford to do it because the resorts cannot…

Kyhl wrote:

I guess I don’t see anyone standing up to the tribes here. I see them as going against the rules that were set by the DNR. So this is the Gov going against the rules that his DNR chief set, therefore, the governor going against himself. The rules were supposed to be based on biology. The rule was the DNR decided on a safe harvest limit for the year with the thought that going over that limit would cause harm to the future of the lake. So now they say we past that limit.

The safe harvest limit is not a # the DNR (or the DNR Chief) presents or sets, it is a number negotiated by the DNR and the Tribe. The public gets a portion, and the tribe gets a portion of that SHL. So when one side chooses not to follow that (based off biology or just political whim), it is inherently standing up to (or against the wishes of) the other side.

As for the rest of your post I wholeheartedly agree. However, asking for it to be managed based off of science, while needing to manage for 2 separate groups is simply not possible. Science supports one conclusion, 2 groups rarely agree on the same thing. Science also does not support a harvesting during the spawn. Nor implementing a slot that protects, and subsequently skews the biomass to large fish. Science and Mille Lacs haven’t been combined since pre-1999.

Thank you bigwerm for bringing some logical thinking to this rant back and fourth. This whole situation of mille lacs is far from over. I’m sure the tribes will have a reaction to the lake staying open. Maybe it will bring talks back to the table or maybe the gov cut his own rope. We shall see. The lake is not being managed scientifically to this point it is being managed behind closed door meetings with personal agendas. Until those meetings are opened to the public I am afraid we are in for the same b.s. that has been happening since I believe 1999.

Keep in mind…the DNR is just the agency, NOT the authority. Reality is they are no more than these and will jerk whichever way the string is pulled. Question has always been, who’s pulling the strings?
[/quote]

Agree with walleye student here. State agencies are run by Commissioners, who are political appointees. If the Governor tells Commissioner Landwehr to keep the lake open, guess what the Commissioner does. The idea that one of these loyalists are going to buck the Governor is laughable. They are loyal beyond believe and unfortunately quite partisan right now.

The rank and file DNR folks? I’d hate to be in their shoes.

fishthumper wrote:

know of any businesses being forced to do business or fishermen being forced to fish under court order on Mille Lacs – So I have no idea where you are going with that ????
Second I can bet you if I had been forced to work at Macdonalds for many years under good working conditions before taking 3-6 month off I’d sure end up being able to keep my house.

First of all, the state is taking away their business by making decisions that significantly affects their business without considering the impact.

When these businesses have been struggling to keep their head above water for several years now because of the conservative slot limits, a close now would be the last straw for many. The recent hot bite during the catch and release season this year’s SEEMS to have finally had a positive impact on the businesses. Why take it away only to honor an old policy? I believe the DNR when they say there will not be any impact on the 2013 year class.

While I understand breaking policy is sending a horrible message, some new direction is badly needed up there even if it does break policy.

Why are some people so worried about the dozens of resorts and bait stores around Mille Lacs? Why should I believe that any resort owner or bait shop owner knows or even cares about what is best for the lake in the long term? Is it ok for any non-business or property owner (but still a Mille Lacs stakeholder — e.g. a fisherman who fishes there) to disagree with the ideas or goals of someone who does business on or near the lake?

john23 wrote:

Why are some people so worried about the dozens of resorts and bait stores around Mille Lacs?

Well maybe because we like to visit/patronize them when we visit the lake? It is kind of nice to stay at a resort, eat at a restaurant, go out on a launch trip, buy souvenirs, bait, etc., comes in kind of handy while we’re there. Many of the businesses have been there a long time so I don’t think we can accuse them of coming in and trying to make a big easy buck at the expense of the lake and then walking away next year laughing with chest full of money. They’ve committed many years (some by family generations) being turned over to the next generation, so I do believe that they have the long term health of the fishery in mind as much as anyone else. Furthermore, nobody wants to see this dotting the landscape around the area…

Attachments:

1. 

   westside_zps48fdf935.jpg
   

john23 wrote:

1. Why are some people so worried about the dozens of resorts and bait stores around Mille Lacs? 2. Why should I believe that any resort owner or bait shop owner knows or even cares about what is best for the lake in the long term? 3. Is it ok for any non-business or property owner (but still a Mille Lacs stakeholder — e.g. a fisherman who fishes there) to disagree with the ideas or goals of someone who does business on or near the lake?

1. For me I love ice fishing the lake, if these resorts went out of business the majority of the lake would be cutoff due to snow/ice breakers etc. Also, when I’m on the lake for full days I like to know someone is there for some warm food and a drink when I get off the lake. Finally, the heritage of it is important to me, I want to be able to take my kids to the same places I made memories as a kid. Note I’ve never lived close to Mille Lacs and don’t personally know one business owner on the lake.

2. Mainly their vested interest in the health of the lake, their business and livelihood depends on it. And their history advocating for the lake.

3. Yes.