Am I the Jerk in this situation?

Long post coming, but I need to vent and maybe get a somewhat objective opinion on whether I’m being a jerk here.

I’m looking to buy a used, fun little zippy car to drive into work as I hate driving/parking my truck in DT St. Paul. Especially as I’m moving to a new ramp soon that has very tight parking spots. I’m looking for a manual transmission as I find them more fun. Search begins a couple months ago.

Fast forward to last week and I find a car that’s not too far away for I think a reasonable price given the good condition. I setup a test drive early last week for Friday and then we get the snow. This guy, we will call him Jim, isn’t deterred and thinks it’s a great chance to show off the AWD and snow tires.

Bring my dad with, drive for a couple miles and love the car. I tell him I’d love to try driving it again once it’s dry so I can get it out of fourth gear and make sure everything feels right at highway speed.

Meet up with him Sunday and drive the car, again, like it. I tell him I’m interested and I’d be willing to make an offer contingent on my mechanic looking it over and making sure there aren’t any issues.

He gives me some crap about it, he’s a total car nut AND he works at a dealership, so he’s had it looked over before listing. ‘A waste of his time and my money’ is how he put it. I told him that’s an absolute deal breaker for me, I will not buy a car no matter how much work he’s said he’s had done. I tell him again that I trust the cars gonna get an all systems go, and I hope it does, but I need to check. He asks for an offer on the car and I tell him I’ll give him $250 less than his asking price, as I think he’s slightly high and let’s be real, no one expects to sell a car online and get their asking price, I know he’s built in a bit of cushion.

He agrees and we write up a little purchase agreement and I put $250 down on the car. As I’m leaving his place, he says, ‘you know, one thing that might come up in the inspection is the rear axle seals. They’ve had a slight leak since I bought it, but my guys just checked it out and it’s not a problem. It’s not something they said needs to be fixed.’ I say ‘alright’, but am already a bit annoyed as that is NOT something that came up until after he found out I was serious about the inspection.

Monday I take the car over to my mechanic and he takes a look. Overall, great shape. But my mechanic says the rear axle seal is leaking pretty good, more than he’d be comfortable signing off on. And if that leaks too much, rear differential burns up, and that is a costly repair, one I probably wouldn’t do given the age and mileage. Also, one of the rear coil springs is broken in two and the other is very rusty and probably will go soon. Get them both replaced as you generally want both springs to have the same stiffness/cushion or whatever.

I call Jim and tell him the details and he is immediately annoyed and rude about it.

‘Well that is pretty shocking. I was under the car when it got its last oil change 100 miles ago and there was no spring broken.’

And then he says, and I quote:
‘I don’t know if your dad weighs 400 pounds, but that’s the only time someone’s been in the back seat in months, it must have broke when we drove it with him in back.’

He then rants about a car with 150k miles you expect some issues, and I tell him I agree but it was advertised as no issues. I tell him I want these things addressed in some way before moving forward, which likely means we adjust the deal somehow.

He kind of storms off the phone, but says he’d take $250 more off the price and buy me one of the springs. I tell him I’ll think about it and let him know the next day.

I do a bit more research and get quotes from my mechanic, another independent shop, and the dealership.

Dealership quotes me at $1500(lol), Indy shop quotes $900(at $140 less per spring, for the same part), and my guy will be somewhere in the $700-900 range. Jim however is a parts guy at his dealership, so I’d love to find out what the springs cost him, and see if there’s some creative solution that benefits both of us.

Send him a long message with my perspective/quotes, and I ask if he’d be able to tell me what it would cost HIM for the parts + repair at the dealer, because that would probably be a win win for both of us. I said if he can get those parts + labor for cheaper, I’d make him an offer for the car, AND front him cash for the repair(if we rewrite our agreement). Then I have peace of mind and he likely walks away with a couple hundred extra dollars in his pocket.

He replies ‘too much text, simplify your offer for me’

My reply was ‘If you’ll entertain this arrangement(if not let’s just move on), I need to know what that cost is going to be for you before I make an offer.

But here’s an example, if it costs you $500 for repair, I give you $500 for the repair up front so you have no out of pocket expense, and make an offer for the car. But I can’t make that offer until I know the repair cost. My offer will be different if your cost is $400 vs $900. ’

He replies ‘I’ve never had to work so hard to sell something. I’ll ask around tomorrow. Given I get a reduced rate, will you honor your original offer?’

Sent him another cordial message that we are really close! But again, if his repair cost is $400, then maybe I will offer the deal, if his cost is $900, then that will impact my offer. I don’t need the car today, if it’s gonna take 2 weeks to get the car in, I’m happy to wait and put a big chunk of cash down on the car so he’s comfortable.

Then thanked him and told him if he wants to roll the dice with other Facebook buyers that’s totally his right and there won’t be any hard feelings from my side. But I’ve learned that if I don’t feel good about a deal on the day I make it, I will probably feel bad about it every time I think about it.

Ugh, I’m pretty wound up about it. He’s literally the parts guy at the dealership. I guess I don’t know his work or what all is involved, but I didn’t think asking him to price that out is a huge effort. I mean I got three quotes in one morning…is it that hard to understand that an immediate repair cost of $1500 is going to result in a smaller cash offer for the car than if I have to throw $400 into the car?

If I’m being a total tool someone let me know so I can apologize to this guy. Maybe I’m making a big assumption about the level of effort it is to get work done on your own car if you work at a dealer, but he just won’t confirm or deny any of that. If he told me immediately that he’s not interested in a different solution/deal I’d just make a final offer and call it a day. But it’s generally about 2-4 hours for him to reply any message and just doesn’t ever seem to fully answer/reply to anything.

I certainly dont see you as a tool. More of a careful, reluctant buyer in a scammers market- such as facebook marketplace, craigslist, etc. You’re going about it the right way, not fully trusting everything he says. At the same rate, if I were in his shoes I’d probably be a little worked up about this process taking up a few weeks of his time.

He probably wants it all over with just as much as you, just getting frustrated with how many loops you both have to jump through to get there. Also, imo, depends. Is this a $40k purchase or $4k? I’ll assume the latter. Either way, he should understand you dont want to blindly throw your money at him. Should also mention his comment about your father was completely uncalled for. If somebody would have made a comment like that towards my dad when in your position, I think I would have been happy to move onto the next listing.

Just keep in mind there was a thread last year where I was told by people here that I’m just a terrible driver that cant park for getting frustrated with having to park my truck in a full ramp in DT St paul for work. Maybe you should just get better at it like I had to

The seller is a jerk for trying to lie about condition of vehicle.Should have just knocked off about 600 below original negotiated price.Should have asked your indy mechanic how old the break in spring was.

Anytime you buy a used vehicle with 150k on them your taking a huge gamble. Sometimes you luck out and sometimes you get burned. My advice is try and find a car that a older couple has owned and took good care of. That guy sounds like an idiot and just because he works at a dealer don’t mean anything. You don’t need to be a mechanic to work at a parts counter.

I’m surprised the guy wrote that you used “too much text”.

Always get a used car inspected by a mechanic you trust before making an offer. I would have walked away when he was reluctant to let you take it for an inspection. That’s a major red flag for me. He knew there was problems and he neglected to say anything up front.
If you paid him already I wish you the best. If not I personally would let him have it and keep looking.
Lots of other used cars out there to be buying a question mark from a dishonest person.

It’s a used car with 150k, it needs work, they all need something. I usually plan on 1000-1500 to get a used car up to my standards, everything on my cars has to be as good as it came from the factory. Springs are cheap and easy to replace yourself. I normally replace all the brakes, look at the brake lines, flush the MC, and a few other things. Point is no matter what someone says a 150k car needs something, some tell you some don’t. Sounds like a car he bought to flip and wants to keep the cost down. You need to learn to walk away from a deal if it doesn’t sound right. If it is a car you really want than you have to be willing to put up with a little more bs. Sounds like a typical CL transaction.

Jim however is a parts guy at his dealership, so I’d love to find out what the springs cost him, and see if there’s some creative solution that benefits both of us

Phil,
You are working way too hard at this. Now that the defects have been found, either revise your offer to $1000 off if you take care of the repairs, or keep your original offer of $250 off if he takes care of them. Just because he works at a dealership doesn’t mean he gets to buy the spring for $50.

Or, like others have mentioned, move on and find a different car.

HRG

If i was him i would give your $250 back and move on without you.

To tell you the truth Phil, I wouldn’t agree to sell you a ham sandwich. I would run. Are you wrong here? Probably not. But you are gaining a reputation of beating up people over the price they ask.

Agree with most things said here. If you use this same process every time you buy a car with $150k on it, I don’t think you’ll get very far. The process and steps you used are more applicable to a $15k+ car for sale. Still, no, you’re not being a jerk.

It has a 150k miles on it. If you wanna new car get your wallet out. Im sure he wishes he wouldn’t have answered your call by now. I have a 2006 gmc k1500 in my driveway I quit driving because I got a new truck. It has 175k miles on it if I were to sell it I would say all thats wrong with it is the rear bumpers rusted and driver seat cover is worn from getting in and out. Im guessing you could pick it apart but have to realize it is 14 years old. Im sure it could use some stuff but I also know you could just drive it with no issues. Maybe that seal leaked for years and never created an issue for him. If it were me I would tell you to take a hike. If you buy it and 6 months from now the clutch goes out is he responsible cause he new it had some wear and didn’t tell you?

Where’s the cliff notes version?

I got a bit uneasy reading your post when you put $250 down. I would never hand over any money without taking full ownership/title at that time. I think 150,000 miles there’s bound to be a few things wrong, whether he knows it or not, but those repairs are still cheaper than a few months of a new car payment. Any car purchase is a large financial commitment, so I think you are fine by doing your homework in advance on it.

I think you have some leverage because he must not have any other buyers if he hasn’t thrown you to the curb yet. You mention “fun little zippy car,” if this is a Porsche with 150,000 miles, then you are fine in all you are doing. If this is a 1998 Grand Prix, then you are overkill for all you’re doing.

I think you make 2 final offers, one at $1,000ish less and you handle the repairs. One at the $xxx less and he handles the repairs prior to your purchase. If neither is accepted, then move on. My guess is he will accept one because your situation has drug on so he may not have much other interest in it.

Agree with others comments. Are you being a jerk? No you’re not, but understand your efforts are not the norm in buying used cars and as others have said used cars have issues so I can understand this guys frustration. I’ve been buying used cars my whole life and have probably purchased more than 30 of them. Take them for a spin, get up to highway speed, get under the car, inspect the engine, research online first to know it’s a dependable model, pull the trigger. Taking it to a mechanic is a good idea but I’ve never done it.

Personally the moment he changed stories and said last minute like that there is this one little issue…. I would have walked.

Lastly, up until recently, I’ve always lived by one rule when buying cars. Either buy new or almost new or really used – as in $1500 or less used. The moment you drop 5-10k on a vehicle you are invested to the point that you can’t afford not to fix it. I don’t like being in that position. You buy a car for a grand and it breaks, well that sucks but I can live with losing a grand. Most used cars have a lot more life in them than people think too.

Btw what model car are you looking at? I miss zipping around town in a manual. So much more fun to drive

Sounds to me like the seller knew about the problems and was hoping to sell to someone who knows nothing about cars. Also the comment about “to much text” and your father would have ended the deal.

About listing for more than the seller actually wants. I have learned over the years when selling anything. List for what you actually want. Most people that want to dicker, not all ,aren’t that serious.

Personally I feel it is deceiving . Obviously I am in the minority. Just like when someone says ” cash money ” . Someone care to explain what other cash there is ? This statement is usually followed by a low ball offer. Since I list everything I sell as ” price firm “. Which is the least I am willing to take. If you don’t like the price don’t contact keep looking elsewhere.

To the OP’s question of who is at fault. Both of you. To expect a vehicle with that many miles to be fault free is unrealistic. The seller is at fault for trying to get you to forget inspection by your mechanic. The fact that he works at a dealership has nothing to do with the equation. Regardless of papers and invoices showed to you. You would never know what he actually paid for the parts. Dealerships just vary too much on any deals given to employees.

If advertised as needing nothing. Once your mechanic found these problems. He should have adjusted his price accordingly. Long time ago bought a three year old pickup. Seller advertised same way. Mutually agreed to let my mechanic give it an inspection. Found about 500 $ of work that needed to be done. Offered 250 less than his original asking price. Both of us walked away happy.

More than likely the thing to do now in your case. Is both of you agree to move on and deal with other people.

bzzsaw wrote:

To tell you the truth Phil, I wouldn’t agree to sell you a ham sandwich. I would run. Are you wrong here? Probably not. But you are gaining a reputation of beating up people over the price they ask.

Don’t worry, phil. If you’re hungry i wouldn’t think twice about selling you a ham sammich. And I promise to tell you the truth up front about the condition of the ham. If you found mold on it I would’t even accuse you of beating me up over the price. I’m here for you brother.

Objectively speaking, I see both sides. Yes, you are being more high maintenance and demanding than the seller is accustomed to, but if anyone is being a jerk or a tool, it’s the seller. He tried to sell you the car without disclosing the seal issue. (in other words he lied to you). He probably knew about the springs too, so that’s another lie, piled up with an insult for your old man. I would walk away and never think of this cat again.

Guy should have advertised “AS IS”… my head hurts after reading all this.

I’m not saying you’re a jerk at all but as said once or twice above.,, If it were me selling it I would give you the 250 back, change it to “as is” and find another buyer.

NO way I would ever spend this much effort on a buyer. just my 2cents.

What kind or car is it? And how much is he asking for it ?

Caveat Emptor, but once you had the car checked out and returned to him, he should have returned your $250 and proceed from there or not.

Never put $ down
Walk away when you find out the first act of dishonesty as there will always be more.
As the seller, I would have walked away from you setting up such a PITA deal…

Have you ever written a post with less than 150,000 words?

papaperch wrote:

This statement is usually followed by a low ball offer. Since I list everything I sell as ” price firm “. Which is the least I am willing to take. If you don’t like the price don’t contact keep looking elsewhere.

Is this proper? I have a list of things I want/need but am not too serious about and have given myself a price ceiling for what I would purchase them for. Usually things that are nice to have but if I don’t get it in the next few years, no big deal, I’ll purchase whenever the right price comes along.

I send the seller a message saying, “Sorry to lowball offer you, I am interested but not interested enough for that price. I’ll pay cash at xxx price. If your item doesn’t sell for awhile and you’re holding onto it for longer than you’d like and willing to lower, send me a message.”

I usually get a reply of, “Thanks, I’ll hold onto your contact info in case.” Then rarely does it go anywhere after that.

Other things I am not going to haggle on at all. Bought a used Polaris Ranger that I felt was already at a good price and priced lower than anything else comparable on craigslist or facebook I’d come across for several months. I maybe could have haggled a couple hundred, but I felt it was already a fair deal for both of us.

#DRAMA

It’s a used car deal with over 150,000 miles! Look at it, drive it, make an offer based on what you think it’s worth. It is what it is- a gamble. With the issues you find you make the offer less and you go fix it. It’s really that simple. As a seller, I would never entertain this much drama and would have moved on a long time ago. It’s really not at all this complicated.

Phil, your actions are thorough but not wrong at all. I’m kind of surprised at the people on here chastising you but that’s the thing to do on IDO, act tough. For all those that think you’re going too far and you should just fork money over as a gamble I have a to sell and look forward to doing business with you.

There’s a thread from a day or two ago about scams, so we know people take to the internet to scam people out of money. We can’t have it both ways; the truth is that there are plenty of scams and less than honest people out there and you’ve got to be diligent when buying.

Dan wrote:

Phil, your actions are thorough but not wrong at all. I’m kind of surprised at the people on here chastising you but that’s the thing to do on IDO, act tough. For all those that think you’re going too far and you should just fork money over as a gamble I have a to sell and look forward to doing business with you.

Fishing and gear questions seem to get answered fairly and in a friendly manner. Other stuff? I have learned never to ask a “life question” on IDO.

Fwiw, I sold PhilT some fishfinders and he was extremely easy to deal with, not a jerk or over-texter.

tangler wrote:

Fishing and gear questions seem to get answered fairly and in a friendly manner. Other stuff? I have learned never to ask a “life question” on IDO.

Gardening conversation are generally pretty safe too.

With the unusually warm weather we’re having, maybe we’ll have some quality gardening conversations sooner than previous historical average dates have dictated in the past. The climate for a positive gardening discussion unseasonably early might be just what the proctologist ordered.