alright gear heads is this true?

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/biggest-myth-warming-car-winter-164138459.html

Kinda contradicts their theory, that carburetors were not smart enough to run rich, but rather would stall ? Huh ? Today’s engine controllers are smart enough to know how to mix air/fuel in all temps, there are sensors checking air temp, air humidity, air flow, fuel temp, exhaust temp, exhaust content (lean/rich) and it adjusts accordingly, including idling time. Like today’s engines that last 200,000 miles regularly, are failing too quickly compared to older engines ? Better remove all the remote starts… I don’t see how getting in and driving cold, warms the gasoline any quicker than idling ?

I dont care if it’s true or not in the winter. I warm them up usually.
Love my remote start for that reason.
I have been driving over 30 years and have had very few engine issues.

Quite honestly, I have been a service manager for going on 14 years and I can recall 2 times, that I have seen a problem with a cylinder wall or rings… and they were casting issues, not from cylinder wall washing….they just don’t happen.

big_g wrote:

Quite honestly, I have been a service manager for going on 14 years and I can recall 2 times, that I have seen a problem with a cylinder wall or rings… and they were casting issues, not from cylinder wall washing….they just don’t happen.

Yeah, but you work at a Dodge dealership. Is there really any kind of service needed outside of an oil change and some new tires?😜

That guy obviously has never driven at -20F. I like being able to see through the windshield while I’m driving and my truck won’t be able to keep it clear after 30-60 seconds of running.

What the guy quoted in the article is missing is that when an engine is “running rich”, it’s not THAT rich. You’re talking about adding an almost microscopic amount more fuel to each stroke than would accompany an normal “at operating temp” cycle. That tiny, tiny, tiny bit of additional fuel is not going to have any impact as far as washing lubricant from the cylinder walls.

Grouse

That may be true for IL winters but a MN cold snap will break stuff without warming up. I blew a high pressure hydraulic power steering hose once when trying to move a car to a closer parking spot while it was warming up from -20F without letting it warm up first.

Does it need to run for 15 minutes, maybe not.

Another example, if you only drive short distances then I would let it warm up first to make sure that it gets to full temp before shutting down.
With temps < -10F my truck with a max tow package, so bigger radiator and transmission cooler barely gets the transmission warmed up by the time I get to work in the morning. After driving 20 minutes my transmission just makes it to 150F. And that is with letting the tranny get above freezing before starting the 20 minute drive.

Next year I may look into a radiator cover.

That is only when it is super cold out. When temps are in the 20s I don’t bother letting things warm more than a couple minutes.

I do agree with their point about taking things easy until the engine is up to temp. Sometimes I fail at that but I do try to be conscious of it.

Also if it were a problem there wouldn’t be remote start and they wouldn’t put a 15 minute timer on it.

Fife wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>big_g wrote:</div>
Quite honestly, I have been a service manager for going on 14 years and I can recall 2 times, that I have seen a problem with a cylinder wall or rings… and they were casting issues, not from cylinder wall washing….they just don’t happen.

Yeah, but you work at a Dodge dealership. Is there really any kind of service needed outside of an oil change and some new tires?😜

Bulbs Fife… bulbs too …

okay,I will throw my hat in the ring here,
first,the guy failed to mention that all of todays engines have heated oxygen sensors in them,and they also have intake air temperature sensors in the intake snorkel.

these two types of sensors as well as the engine temp sensor tell the engines computer what fuel ratio is correct for the temps at ANY start up temperature,so in reality the engine is only getting the fuel it needs.
so there is almost no chance of cylinder washing due to being “overly rich” as the proper air and fuel ratio is always correct regardless of temperature,if a rich condition did occur for long periods of time,you would be able to observe black smoke,engine chugging,and eventually catilytic converter failure.

the only washing that will happen is from the use of ethanol fuels,why??
ethanol quits evaporating at around 38 degrees,when this happens,it is still a liquid,and ethanol is also a solvent.
but,it is mixed with gasoline at a ten percent ratio,and it will burn once the optimum temperature is reached which happens very quickly once the gasoline is burning in the combustion chamber.

where ethanol fuel becomes a real concern is when E-85 is used as it is now 85 percent ethanol,when using this fuel,I wouldnt let it run long as it can contribute to cylinder wall washing when extremely cold.

the reason I support warming an engine is this,the oil gets warm enough to do its job,no scuffing on sliding or turning parts that havent achieved proper lubrication shortly after a severe cold start.

many transmissions wont shift into overdrive until the fluid is warm enough,especially dodge and jeep transmissions,and on this note,most dodge transmissions dont circulate fluid through the oil cooler until its either in neutral,or in gear,on these transmissions,it is a good idea to set the park brake and put the trans in neutral if you are going to let it run for very long.

what can,and will happen eventually is the torque converter will balloon because the oil in it is warm,then it ingests a large charge of cold oil and the converters body will react to the large temp swing,I know,I have rebuilt enough of them because of this.

let it run,it will not hurt any vehicle to warm up,I can say this with confidence as I have worked on them for thirty eight years now,and to see them last over two hundred thousand miles even with warming them up every cold winter day,the only thing you are out of is the extra gas it took to warm it up.

Fife wrote:

Yeah, but you work at a Dodge dealership. Is there really any kind of service needed outside of an oil change and some new tires?😜

Sensors Fife……sensors, sensors and sensors sensing the sensors. You can’t fart in a Dodge truck without triggering a sensor.

Like we talked about today Dutchy !!! nice visiting with you

Iowaboy1 wrote:

many transmissions wont shift into overdrive until the fluid is warm enough,especially dodge and jeep transmissions,and on this note,most dodge transmissions dont circulate fluid through the oil cooler until its either in neutral,or in gear,on these transmissions,it is a good idea to set the park brake and put the trans in neutral if you are going to let it run for very long.

what can,and will happen eventually is the torque converter will balloon because the oil in it is warm,then it ingests a large charge of cold oil and the converters body will react to the large temp swing,I know,I have rebuilt enough of them because of this.

Great post!

I carved this out because it might make sense with what I see happen to the F-150 in the mornings. The tranny will lose a few degrees, maybe five, right aftering putting it in gear for the first time. It takes about 10 seconds for it to pop back up.
Makes me wonder if Ford is doing this too.

Kyhl wrote:

I carved this out because it might make sense with what I see happen to the F-150 in the mornings. The tranny will lose a few degrees, maybe five, right aftering putting it in gear for the first time. It takes about 10 seconds for it to pop back up.
Makes me wonder if Ford is doing this too.

yes in fact it does,it can happen to all of the makes of vehicles,the newer fords since around 2000 have a thermostat in their transmissions and wont open the thermostat until it reaches around 140 degrees if memory serves me correctly,then it gets the cold oil that is in the cooler,this is probably what you are seeing.

if you were to take a look at a cut away of a modern torque converter,they are about twice as heavily built as they once were,and the ballooning was a much bigger problem then,but it still happens on light duty vehicles that are left to run much too long with out fluid being circulated through out the entire system while warming up.

another thing fords due is restrict what pressures go through the cooler after the thermostat does open until its in gear,so they do circulate a little,but not very much in park,even when its hot.

What about a 2000 Nissan Frontier?? Same thing??