2024 Vikings

  • ThunderLund78
    Posts: 2680
    #2297295

    For the life of me, I can’t understand how we’re not getting more pressure on the QB like we were the first few games. If you want to show blitz and back out of it, fine, but then don’t give the QB 6 seconds to stand in the pocket like a post and find guys all alone in that 20yd gap in the zone. Feels like rushing 4 is like rushing zero. All our sacks came basically in garbage time when the colts more or less had given up.

    On the flip side, I know Indy has a pretty dang good front four on D, but it felt like the Vikings offensive line of 2021 last night. Darnold got abused. The guy on the o-line that had the best game just showed up 2 days ago – so at least that was a good get.

    CaptainMusky
    Posts: 23373
    #2297296

    Im concerned about Reichert’s injury. This could be bad he was pushing everything right.

    JEREMY
    BP
    Posts: 3971
    #2297337

    Why wasnt he injured before the 2 misses.

    JoeMX1825
    MN
    Posts: 18371
    #2297343

    the fact that they had Will the Thrill continue to kick XP’s and kickoffs makes me think it’s not something serious…

    JoeMX1825
    MN
    Posts: 18371
    #2297345

    On the flip side, I know Indy has a pretty dang good front four on D, but it felt like the Vikings offensive line of 2021 last night. Darnold got abused. The guy on the o-line that had the best game just showed up 2 days ago – so at least that was a good get.

    Bradbury has getting getting railroaded his entire career, he’s way undersized going up against today’s NFL NTs/DTs

    My guess is whatever draft picks we have left will be used on a new Center and CB…

    CaptainMusky
    Posts: 23373
    #2297351

    The one that Bradburry got ran over he stepped on INgrams foot which caused him to fall. At first I was like that was a pro going against a HS player then I saw the replay. Hard to recover from that. Ingram does that a lot sticking his foot way out.

    Justin Donson
    Posts: 353
    #2297372

    Someone mentioned a new(worse) era of quarterbacks in the NFL right now and it reminded me of a theory/analysis I read somewhere that was really interesting.

    Basically, it went something like this(I’ll probably get this somewhat wrong):

    Go back to the early 2000s and you had cover 2 gaining popularity on defense, especially productive with Tampa’s ‘Tampa 2’. As the NFL does, Tampa has a few dominant defensive years and everyone follows suit trying to copy them. Ignoring the fact that not every team has the defensive personnel to make cover 2 effective.

    And what kind of QB play do you really want going against cover 2 defense? A pocket passer who can read the field, diagnose the coverage, and go through progressions to find the receiver who finds his way into a gap in the zone. Peyton Manning was already becoming well established in the league, but enter Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Phillip Rivers, etc. All fueled by drafting strategy, teams are looking for the next Peyton Manning.

    This carries on for awhile, aided by a league that wants more offense, and you see the boom years up until the Seattle Seahawks show up and change the way teams things about defense again. They run a cover 3(I think, maybe it was cover 1?) defense which features a single high safety(Earl Thomas) and a strong safety that drops down closer to the line of scrimmage(Kam Chancellor, one the best run stopping safety of all time), this made them extremely stingy against the run and created a lot of QB pressure. This made it super hard for pocket passer style QBs to get anything going, not enough time to really survey the field and go through those progressions.

    NFL again, being a copy cat league sees many teams adopt this defensive scheme in hopes to replicate their success. They succeed in some ways. We see pocket QBs start to become less effective. What IS effective though, is QBs that can salvage a broken play, QBs who thrive on escaping the pocket and extending the play and finding open receivers normally up the sidelines where Cover 3 is weakest. A few new QBs start to emerge as clear league leaders (Mahomes, Jackson, Allen), and now every team is trying to find the next Mahomes/Jackson/Allen in the draft.

    There’s a challenge with cover 3 though. It requires a ridiculous amount of athleticism from your secondary. It worked perfectly for the Seahawks because they literally had HOF caliber players at free safety(Earl Thomas), strong safety(Kam Chancellor), CB(Richard Sherman), LB(Bobby Wagner), and a very strong front 4, all in their primes! Teams tried to copy their scheme, but what made that scheme so effective was the personnel. Mahomes comes into the league and just starts carving up leaky cover 3 secondaries and sets records while doing so.

    Fast forward another almost 10 years and where are we? A lot of defenses have shifted back to a cover 2 style defense that is difficult for these mobile QBs to take advantage of. Offense appears down this year and even guys like Mahomes are not putting up big numbers like they were.

    The problem? Teams have been trying to find the next Mahomes/Allen for the last 10 years and defenses have adjusted. Maybe the cycle will repeat itself and the pocket passer QB will reign supreme again.

    It could be totally wrong, but it was a really interesting analysis based on the trends/copy-cat nature of the NFL. Also a great study in how uncreative a lot of NFL coaching staffs are. What made Tampa in the late 90s-early 2000s & Seattle in the mid 2010s great was partly their scheme, but mainly it was their personnel. They had absolutely stacked rosters that don’t come around very often, and their coaching staffs built their scheme around the individual skillsets. Cover 3 gets ROASTED by guys like Mahomes when you don’t have the best FS/SS/CB/MLB in the league all playing on the field at the same time, WITH a front 4 that gets consistent pressure.

    CaptainMusky
    Posts: 23373
    #2297378

    Jefferson is within just over 100 yards for the most receiving yards through the first 5 years of anyone’s career. I say he gets it.

    Justin Donson
    Posts: 353
    #2297383

    Jefferson is within just over 100 yards for the most receiving yards through the first 5 years of anyone’s career. I say he gets it.

    Barring injury, I would say that I’d put my money on the ‘over’ of Jefferson getting 100 yards in the next 9 games lol.

    gim
    Plymouth, MN
    Posts: 17834
    #2297391

    Bradbury has getting getting railroaded his entire career, he’s way undersized going up against today’s NFL NTs/DTs

    He’s definitely undersized for a center. But he was also drafted during the Zimmer/Kubiak era, and they implemented the zone run scheme, which values mobility over size.

    BigWerm
    SW Metro
    Posts: 11889
    #2297401

    On the flip side, I know Indy has a pretty dang good front four on D, but it felt like the Vikings offensive line of 2021 last night.

    2021 on the OL and 2023 with the turnovers! Bradbury has been pretty solid this year, but that is a tough matchup for him and the interior OL in general. Buckner requires double teams and leaves everyone else solo against a very solid DL all the way around. But that was still a pretty good performance all around, except for the turnovers, 415 yards for us, only 227 for them and only 2 4th quarter FG’s (their TD was the fumble return) given up.

    CaptainMusky
    Posts: 23373
    #2297442

    Barring injury, I would say that I’d put my money on the ‘over’ of Jefferson getting 100 yards in the next 9 games lol.

    I was obviously being sarcastic. He could get it this week already.

    Justin Donson
    Posts: 353
    #2297494

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Justin Donson wrote:</div>
    Barring injury, I would say that I’d put my money on the ‘over’ of Jefferson getting 100 yards in the next 9 games lol.

    I was obviously being sarcastic. He could get it this week already.

    I know you were, so was I! I feel like every Jefferson catch is like a 20 yard crossing route or ‘dagger’ route almost. I wonder if we’ll ever adopt more of an underneath passing game(maybe with Hock back?). Seems like every sack replay they show the ‘behind the QB view’ and all of our dudes are running like 15+ yard routes. Or maybe it’s just Sam doesn’t immediately check-down like Cousins did a lot of times?

    CaptainMusky
    Posts: 23373
    #2297497

    I dont know how Jefferson always gets open. I mean, he isnt the fastest guy but his routes and cuts are sure precise, I guess that must be it. Sure fun to watch.

    Jimmy Jones
    Posts: 2912
    #2297499

    Or maybe it’s just Sam doesn’t immediately check-down like Cousins did a lot of times?

    I get the feeling he gets so focused on one receiver that he doesn’t “look” for an alternate.

    And the really good QBs seem to have a “sense of presence” for what’s happening outside of their field of view and Sam at times appears to not have that.

    He has an arm and can throw long as accurately as the best, but these other little things just create an annoyance with me. He can run and that’s a huge plus over Cousins who could hardly lope. Sam is not afraid to scamper up field if need be.

    Ripjiggen
    Posts: 11824
    #2297502

    The other huge plus is he makes 10m vs the others and is not signed long term.

    gim
    Plymouth, MN
    Posts: 17834
    #2297779

    The Lions picked up defensive end and former Packer/Viking Zadarius Smith to help soften the loss of Aiden Hutchinson.

    glenn57
    cold spring mn
    Posts: 12088
    #2297781

    also seen that Adam Thelen was traded to the Steelers!

    CaptainMusky
    Posts: 23373
    #2297786

    I get the feeling he gets so focused on one receiver that he doesn’t “look” for an alternate.

    And the really good QBs seem to have a “sense of presence” for what’s happening outside of their field of view and Sam at times appears to not have that.

    He has an arm and can throw long as accurately as the best, but these other little things just create an annoyance with me. He can run and that’s a huge plus over Cousins who could hardly lope. Sam is not afraid to scamper up field if need be.

    IDK from what I have seen Darnold does a far better job of working progressions than Cousins ever did. Cousins was one of the most sacked QBs while he was here so I think we all know what causes that and it isnt alway the line.

    LabDaddy1
    Posts: 2496
    #2297856

    idk, i think darnold has really good awareness and looks through his progressions pretty well…

    gim
    Plymouth, MN
    Posts: 17834
    #2297858

    Looks like the kicker was placed on IR. Field goals and extra points will be an adventure the next month. Is Blair Walsh available?

    LabDaddy1
    Posts: 2496
    #2297882

    Jefferson could probably cover for him for a sec

    The couple passes I’ve seen him throw, wouldn’t be surprised if he can kick too

    CaptainMusky
    Posts: 23373
    #2297900

    The couple passes I’ve seen him throw, wouldn’t be surprised if he can kick too

    DId you see him shoot hoops with Ant? Ridiculous how athletic these guys are. Ant was throwing a football from 3 pt line and nailing them and Jefferson just swishing 3s.

    LabDaddy1
    Posts: 2496
    #2297979

    I did not. I’ll have to check that out

    TillrLife
    Cold Spring, MN
    Posts: 891
    #2298028

    IDK from what I have seen Darnold does a far better job of working progressions than Cousins ever did. Cousins was one of the most sacked QBs while he was here so I think we all know what causes that and it isnt alway the line.

    Darnold is currently at the top of the sack list right now as well.

    ThunderLund78
    Posts: 2680
    #2298039

    Darnold is currently at the top of the sack list right now as well.

    No surprises there, last year was a little better, but this team can never seem to figure the Offensive Line out, at least when it comes to pass protection.

    buckybadger
    Upper Midwest
    Posts: 8389
    #2298057

    also seen that Adam Thelen was traded to the Steelers!

    No. That’s incorrect.

    gim
    Plymouth, MN
    Posts: 17834
    #2298063

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>glenn57 wrote:</div>
    also seen that Adam Thelen was traded to the Steelers!

    No. That’s incorrect.

    I think he may have been thinking of Mike Williams.

    Its possible that Mr Unlimited has revived his career in Pitt?

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