2023 Vikings

Denver is not a good football team. As I previously stated, the only reason they’ve recently won games is because they’ve forced turnovers against the Chiefs, Bills, and Vikings. They have 12 turnovers in those 3 games alone.

If you want a better indication of how legit the Broncos are, go back to the first 4 games of the season and check out their results. They are bad. If they don’t force turnovers, they lose, and usually lose big.

The Chiefs, Bills, and Vikings only have themselves to blame. Don’t shoot yourself in the foot over and over and you win the football game pretty easily.

Its a pattern we’ve seen all season with the Vikings. Early in the season they lost those close games because they were charity with the football. During the 5 game win streak, they didn’t commit turnovers (and in fact forced a few).

gimruis wrote:

Denver is not a good football team. As I previously stated, the only reason they’ve recently won games is because they’ve forced turnovers against the Chiefs, Bills, and Vikings. They have 12 turnovers in those 3 games alone.

If you want a better indication of how legit the Broncos are, go back to the first 4 games of the season and check out their results. They are bad. If they don’t force turnovers, they lose, and usually lose big.

The Chiefs, Bills, and Vikings only have themselves to blame. Don’t shoot yourself in the foot over and over and you win the football game pretty easily.

Its a pattern we’ve seen all season with the Vikings. Early in the season they lost those close games because they were charity with the football. During the 5 game win streak, they didn’t commit turnovers (and in fact forced a few).

Dever WAS a bad team. Now they just beat quality opponents three weeks in a row. A “bad” team rarely beats a quality opponent even once in a season. At this point, they are certainly better than bad, especially at Mile High. Payton is turning that team around as a good coach will do. They are now a dangerous team to play and could very well make the playoffs barring significant injuries.

Bass Pundit wrote:

Dever WAS a bad team. Now they just beat quality opponents three weeks in a row. A “bad” team rarely beats a quality opponent even once in a season. At this point, they are certainly better than bad, especially at Mile High. Payton is turning that team around as a good coach will do. They are now a dangerous team to play and could very well make the playoffs barring significant injuries.

I disagree. If you look at their team stats other than the turnovers, they are not a playoff team. They would not have beaten any of those stated teams above if their opponents had not given the game away with all those turnovers. Relying on 3 or more turnovers to win games is not a recipe for success in the NFL because its just isn’t going to happen every week. They will go back to their losing ways again when their opponents stop turning the ball over.

Winning teams can drive turnovers. Some teams are coached to aggressively knock the ball out of a running back or receiver’s hands. Some teams are coached better than others to put up a level of smoke and mirrors to help induce interceptions via QB confusion.

Allen is a gunslinger and that will not change.

Mahomes has a really bad receiving core (except for Kelce and possibly Rice). He is pushing the envelope. The Chiefs are actually #4 in the NFL on turnovers (the negative side).

The Vikings loss to the Broncos maybe very haunting as the end of the season approaches. Bears, Raiders, and now the Bengals look easy on paper … but they do not play on paper.

NFL average is 1.3 – 1.4 turnovers per game.

gimruis wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Bass Pundit wrote:</div>
Dever WAS a bad team. Now they just beat quality opponents three weeks in a row. A “bad” team rarely beats a quality opponent even once in a season. At this point, they are certainly better than bad, especially at Mile High. Payton is turning that team around as a good coach will do. They are now a dangerous team to play and could very well make the playoffs barring significant injuries.

I disagree. If you look at their team stats other than the turnovers, they are not a playoff team. They would not have beaten any of those stated teams above if their opponents had not given the game away with all those turnovers. Relying on 3 or more turnovers to win games is not a recipe for success in the NFL because its just isn’t going to happen every week. They will go back to their losing ways again when their opponents stop turning the ball over.

I don’t understand your point of view in the least. Having a D that produces turnovers is winning football. Every one of those turnovers on Sunday was forced by excellent plays by the D. Not a single one was a fluke. The Vikes had limited turnover opportunities. The Broncos had numerous close calls in addition to the ones they did convert. Getting turnovers is just as crucial to winning and losing as giving them up. Had Pace been able to recover the fumble he caused in bounds on Denver’s final drive, % would have skyrocketed for a Vikes win. Turnovers are the biggest weapon in the defensive arsenal to hurt the opposing team and change a game’s trajectory.

Out of the Vikings wins, how many of them have been against a team with a winning record?

I don’t understand your point of view in the least. Having a D that produces turnovers is winning football. Every one of those turnovers on Sunday was forced by excellent plays by the D. Not a single one was a fluke. The Vikes had limited turnover opportunities. The Broncos had numerous close calls in addition to the ones they did convert. Getting turnovers is just as crucial to winning and losing as giving them up. Had Pace been able to recover the fumble he caused in bounds on Denver’s final drive, % would have skyrocketed for a Vikes win. Turnovers are the biggest weapon in the defensive arsenal to hurt the opposing team and change a game’s trajectory.

Well except for the one that was a penalty that didn’t get called and the player has now been suspended. I don’t see that as an excellent play.

Relying on 3 or 4 or 5 turnovers to win games in the NFL is not a winning recipe for success because it hardly ever occurs. If that is Denver’s route to winning football games, they would have a losing record every single season. Its completely unsustainable.

I’m not saying that defenses don’t try to force them. I’m saying that in this specific case, Denver cannot win unless they are able to do it. Even Troy Aikman stated this before they played Buffalo on Monday night last week.

Well if Aikman said it, it has to be true.

Ripjiggen wrote:

I don’t understand your point of view in the least. Having a D that produces turnovers is winning football. Every one of those turnovers on Sunday was forced by excellent plays by the D. Not a single one was a fluke. The Vikes had limited turnover opportunities. The Broncos had numerous close calls in addition to the ones they did convert. Getting turnovers is just as crucial to winning and losing as giving them up. Had Pace been able to recover the fumble he caused in bounds on Denver’s final drive, % would have skyrocketed for a Vikes win. Turnovers are the biggest weapon in the defensive arsenal to hurt the opposing team and change a game’s trajectory.

Well except for the one that was a penalty that didn’t get called and the player has now been suspended. I don’t see that as an excellent play.

The ball was being ripped out noticeably before the hit. Probably why the call was missed. I didn’t really “see the hit” either until the replay other than to know he got tagged pretty good. If it had been the hit that caused the fumble my guess is it would have been called.

I don’t think you are seeing the forest from the trees Gim. The Denver D is performing at a high level right now, turnovers are a function, and a result of that markedly improved play compared to the first six weeks of the season, when they were getting gashed left and right. It took the Vikings D five weeks to find its footing.

The Vikings were in that game only because our Defense is pretty darn impressive right now, themselves. And Dobbs pulled a TD out of a hat twice getting the best of the Broncos D on broken plays.

The Dobbs Kool-Aid has been ordered, received, mixed and being consumed. We will love him because there is no other choice.

Dutchboy wrote:

The Dobbs Kool-Aid has been ordered, received, mixed and being consumed. We will love him because there is no other choice.

The kid is like a high-wire act. Is he going to fall or going to pull off an incredible save and keep walking down the line? That is some must-see TV for the rest of the season. I would put the Dobbs show right up there with that rookie in Texas.

I hope you’re not comparing Dobbs upside to Strouds?

gimruis wrote:

Relying on 3 or 4 or 5 turnovers to win games in the NFL is not a winning recipe for success because it hardly ever occurs. If that is Denver’s route to winning football games, they would have a losing record every single season. Its completely unsustainable.

I’m not saying that defenses don’t try to force them. I’m saying that in this specific case, Denver cannot win unless they are able to do it. Even Troy Aikman stated this before they played Buffalo on Monday night last week.

True, but the vikes are prone to loosing the ball to start with. Any middleschool coach can see weaknesses and exploit them. Do what you are good at and capitalize on your opponent’s weaknesses.

Dutchboy wrote:

I hope you’re not comparing Dobbs upside to Strouds?

Talking right now this season with live bullets flying. Last year Purdy was must-watch TV, the last couple of weeks and into the playoffs. Now I can’t even recall much of anything he did in the playoffs beyond the notion he played quite a bit better than I expected. Either Dobbs or Strouds could crash and burn the next few weeks. It’s the not knowing what will happen and the very real prospect of failure that may or may not happen that I’m drawn to.

Dobbs will be coaching high school football while Stroud will still be in the NFL. Don’t get me wrong Dobbs is a nice story. But so was Keenum. Dobbs imo is a career back-up, if he could throw maybe he could catch lightning in a bottle like Geno Smith has in Seattle but I don’t think he has the arm for it. Just my opinion. I just don’t think the Vikings or the fans should try to make him into more than he is.

Dobbs is the most athletic QB we have had since who Tarkenton? Maybe Culpepper. Does he have the arm talent of Cousins? Probably not, but he can extend plays and has proven that in literally every game he has been here scoring TDs where Cousins likely wouldnt have. Id rather still have a healthy Cousins, but I am just enjoying the heck out of watching him play right now. I was also encouraged by the little I saw of Hall before he went down so there might be something there too. I still think they should sign Cousins and keep Dobbs and Hall.

Dutchboy wrote:

Dobbs will be coaching high school football while Stroud will still be in the NFL. Don’t get me wrong Dobbs is a nice story. But so was Keenum. Dobbs imo is a career back-up, if he could throw maybe he could catch lightning in a bottle like Geno Smith has in Seattle but I don’t think he has the arm for it. Just my opinion. I just don’t think the Vikings or the fans should try to make him into more than he is.

KOC really likes something in Dobbs game. KOC has earned my trust on the Offensive side of the ball. That is reason for Vikes to be somewhat optimistic regarding Dobbs. Given time I could see Dobbs possibly being a more athletic slightly shorter Brad Johnson. Brad Johnson was a pretty damn good QB with marginal arm talent. Johnson’s main strengths were football IQ, stature 6’5″, and athletic ability other than arm strength. Now let’s consider Keenum two inches shorter than Dobbs and 4 inches shorter than Johnson. What in Keenum’s game could close that gap in height between him and Brad or him and Dobbs? Keenum is at a disadvantage to Dobbs in height and athletic ability. Dobbs has a lot of room to grow on the upside if he can harness his athletic ability and get to the automatic mastery of the mind game of football that all really good QBs have regardless of physical talent. I think that is what KOC envisions for Dobbs. Will it happen? Stay tuned and hope.

Also, there is the Cousins/Dobbs dynamic. What role can Cousins play in building Dobbs football IQ? What a resource to draw on. Cousins understands football and great QB play.

Did you just say Brad Johnson was athletic?

Yes he did.

He wasn’t a runner, but he wasn’t a statue either. I don’t recall him taking a lot of sacks.

I rest my case on Johnson’s athleticism.

Since the video won’t show. Look up “Brad Johnson throws touchdown to himself”
That was one some play.

Brad Johnson probably couldn’t even start in todays NFL. Not sure why you are using him as a metric or comparison.

Ripjiggen wrote:

Brad Johnson probably couldn’t even start in todays NFL. Not sure why you are using him as a metric or comparison.

But he won a Super Bowl…

Imma just enjoy watching Dobbs ROS. still better than trying to outsuck the Bears or Peckers for a higher pick. who knows what will happen but that is what makes it fun.

Happy Thanksgiving yall!

Ripjiggen wrote:

Brad Johnson probably couldn’t even start in todays NFL. Not sure why you are using him as a metric or comparison.

Brad Johnson’s glaring weakness was his underpowered throwing arm. The ball didn’t have zip. He was able to get by that with anticipation, good decision-making, and accuracy. Johnson was an overlooked guy. But Dennis Green, Brian Billik, and Tony Dungy all recognized talent and developed it in Brad. I was a big fan of Johnson. I firmly believe had he been given the job back in ’98 once he was healthy the Vikes would have gone to the Super Bowl. There will always be room in the league for guys like Johnson. Underpowered arm, high football IQ that moves the chains and wins games.

JJ says IF he is feeling good and he will play.
Really? ain’t that a given, heck some players play dinged.
We will see, the bears are coming in on a roll and the vikings can’t blow another game.

The Bears don’t have a quarterback, at least one better than Dobbs. 13 point queens win.

Jerry K wrote:

JJ says IF he is feeling good and he will play.
Really? ain’t that a given, heck some players play dinged.
We will see, the bears are coming in on a roll and the vikings can’t blow another game.

What roll is that?

I don’t think JJ will be playing with a bye the following week.