2023/2024 NHL/WILD Offseason-Season-Postseason Thread

AnotherFisherman wrote:

^ Tis but a scratch, merely a flesh wound

Yep, just a cut on the chin, very fortunate….

Zuccy! Is this a pay cut for him to stay with Kirill? He’s old, but great deal imo

AnotherFisherman wrote:

Is this a pay cut for him to stay with Kirill

This extension was always going to happen, most hoped for an AAV in the 3’s but with only 2 years of term, it likely had to be in the 4’s..

Zuccy takes $2m pay-cut and Foligo takes $1m pay-cut so they can give Hartman his $5m
Really though I have no idea what kind of number Foligno will come in at.

I’m surprised they didn’t wait until closer to season opener to announce the extension.

Russo says Hartman and Foligno’s Agents are currently in extension talks, those 2 contracts will be extremely important based on term. What do they agree to pay Hartman as? a pseudo 1C or as a 3rd/4th line winger where he’ll likely be playing in 1-2 years?…You just can’t give Foligno more than 3 years of term and an AAV over $3 on an extension, I’d be ok with him getting $2.5×3

BUT this is likely the last opportunity for these guys to get a sizable contract for their career, so they are going to want term and a higher aav arguing that the cap is going up so much the next few years…Hartman for sure will want 5+ years…

4×4 oooof

I sure hope Foligno’s injury last year truly was holding him back! 4×4 I was not expecting! MOOOOOOOOOOSE though

Foligno $4×4 is an absolute overpay, the cap jump the next few years will reduce the sting a bit (expect alot more $2-$3aav type players to also get more $ than expected around the league) but an overpay is an overpay…

Can he stay healthy the way he plays (and is effective) for 4 more years is another tough question…

How does this NOT stunt the development of the young guys? Where will they play?

Sounds like Hartman will get done soon as well…

It’s the term and age that gets me. In 5 years 37 year old Marcus Foligno will be making $4m against the cap. The cap going up is moot, even if it goes up $4m/year he’ll be taking a bigger chunk of the pie (4.0%) at 37 yo than he is now (3.7%).

JoeMX1825 wrote:

Can he stay healthy the way he plays

What player type do you not worry about staying healthy?? Short D… injured. Slim fast forwards… injured. Big physical guys… injured. You want a team full of 6’2″ non-physical Charlie Coyles and Victor Rasks or what? I think Phil Kessel is still available

I like Foligno. But not that much.

lindyrig79 wrote:

I like Foligno. But not that much.

Well said, completely agree.

Well it’s the same dollar value that his brother signed for 1 year at 3 years older.

Was gonna mention Nick fell off a cliff at age 33 but just feels like piling on at that point

So it sounds like Hartman’s extension could happen any day now, what’s your guess for term and AAV?

Reluctantly, I’ll say $4.75 x 5 years…

Just goes to show how valuable Ek and Gaudreau’s contracts are…

I was expecting that 4×4 to go to Hartman and personally I would have been happy with that.

I know everyone hates Hartman now because he’s bLoCkInG Rossi but I think he’s a valuable piece on a cup team. The ultimate utility forward who is at home anchoring a 3rd line and killing penalties but can move up in the lineup and play 18 minutes a night when there’s injuries. Also can score a few goals and a complete prick to play against. Heplays the Yanni Gourde role from the Lightning cup years.

tswoboda wrote:

I was expecting that 4×4 to go to Hartman and personally I would have been happy with that.

I know everyone hates Hartman now because he’s bLoCkInG Rossi but I think he’s a valuable piece on a cup team. The ultimate utility forward who is at home anchoring a 3rd line and killing penalties but can move up in the lineup and play 18 minutes a night when there’s injuries. Also can score a few goals and a complete prick to play against. Heplays the Yanni Gourde role from the Lightning cup years.

I think it’s more related (at least in my mind) to what position will this extension be paying him to play? I don’t think anybody hates Hartman, he is a valuable sandpaper type of player every team wants to have, but we can’t pay a likely 3rd line grinder $4+aav. I’m sure Hartman’s camp is saying, if he plays 1C and has that offensive expectation, then you need to pay him like a 1C (but obviously not $8+ legit 1C’s get) because GMBG will shoot back that his scoring stats from 2 years ago were inflated by playing with Kirill and Zuccy and they want to play him like the career .35 ppg player he was before playing with Kirill and Zuccy as that’s likely the player he will be for the majority of this extension…

That’s why I’ve been saying Hartman’s contract is the most difficult for GMBG to gauge and has the highest risk/reward…Foligno’s new deal complicates things immensly as it shows GMBG puts a big $ value on more than just stats and that’s not something that can be quantified with analytics (which is typically the foundation contract negotiations are built on) Comps come into play (good or bad) and now the future cap explosion does as well…

I like the Zuccy deal but I think FOligno is too long and too much AAV. Hartman has been on a discount deal and it seems money isnt that important to him, but I dont think he is just going to roll over on this one though. Foligno is basically untradeable with that contract now.

What puzzels me about the Foligno contract is what was GMBG’s justification for the $900k AAV pay raise? Low to mid 20 point average is what Foligno has produced his entire career outside of the 23 goal/42 point explosion 2 years ago. This offseason GMBG finally admitted that having that same point expectation from him moving forward was a mistake, so why the $4aav?

I think he’s better at center but either way Hartman has proven he can play both and that versatility is what adds to his value. Ya’ll are too locked into pigeonholing players into slots. Look at Dallas last year they had like 10 centers on the playoff roster.

CaptainMusky wrote:

Foligno is basically untradeable with that contract now.

Figuratively and literally

Foligno plays Selke level defense, that’s where his value is. If he consistently scored 20 then he’d be a $6m player. They have also basically made him the team’s spirit animal with the whole gritfirst mantra

Also I was told that since the cap is going up every player can get an extra million and that helps every team and fans should be excited about it

tswoboda wrote:

Also I was told that since the cap is going up every player can get an extra million and that helps every team and fans should be excited about it

come on, you know what i’m talking about…$4aav today will look like $3aav in 3 years when the cap is up $12 million (that’s likely part of the player agents arguments)…it’s part of the reason why all of these young players around the league have been locked up to 8 year deals (Teams getting ahead of the expected HUGE cap jump)

GREEF line’s defensive reputation was carried by Ek…

I agree that Hartman’s lineup flexibility is a bonus, but most NHL level players can likely “play up” the lineup if ever given the chance, just look at the recent expansion teams seemingly pulling “gems” off existing rosters…those players are pretty much the same players they’ve always been, they were just given a chance…

tswoboda wrote:

They have also basically made him the team’s spirit animal with the whole gritfirst mantra

I agree this is part of the “hidden value” they tacked onto the contract, but we saw how that played out in the playoffs…

and you guys never posted your Hartman contract guesses??

I think Tampa’s Nick Paul is a good comp for Hartman’s next deal, he’s almost a year younger and got 7 years x $3.15, I think 7 years is too much for GMBG due to Hartman’s recent injury history, but 6 years isn’t out of the question…again, this is what I think could happen, not what I want to happen…I think 5 x $3.5 is fair because I think he plays 3rd line the last 4 years of the deal…

JoeMX1825 wrote:

GREEF line’s defensive reputation was carried by Ek…

Not totally sure what you’re trying to say here but I think you’re discrediting Foligno’s defense and I disagree with you. And I’m not the only one.

tswoboda wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>JoeMX1825 wrote:</div>
GREEF line’s defensive reputation was carried by Ek…

Not totally sure what you’re trying to say here but I think you’re discrediting Foligno’s defense and I disagree with you. And I’m not the only one.

Those 2 seasons (2021/2022) the GREEF line was one of the premier shutdown lines (coincidently the 2 season Greenway actually tried in the NHL?) no question, and they got a TON of media hype and awareness with Kaprizov’s explosion on the scene and the numerous national ESPN/TNT games that followed (which helps a TON with media voting outside of MN beatwriters) He had 3 votes in 2019-2019, I’d bet most it all of those were local voters… Boldy of all people even got a vote last year…

Not sure why 2019 matters, in 2018 he didn’t even play PK. Until last season when he was hurt all year, he got better defensively every season in MN. He’s an elite defensive winger and to use Jordan Greenway in an argument against that is pretty telling.

Boldy too is really good defensively, especially considering his age and role. He’s responsible, smart, and has a great stick.

Remember the discussion about league awards last year. Something about Kaprizov deserving the Hart I think?

tswoboda wrote:

Remember the discussion about league awards last year. Something about Kaprizov deserving the Hart I think?

Yep, pretty sure I made that statement at the half way point of the season (when he was the Wild’s ONLY offense) and said IF he continued the same pace in the 2nd half he absolutely deserves MVP consideration, his month long injury at the end threw a wrench in that idea…There was a considerable amount of hockey media who said the same thing…

He missed what, 15 games? And the team had a [much] better record without him? And by playoffs the fans and media actually anointed JEEK as the most “irreplaceable” (???) player on the team?

Mackinnon has been top 5 multiple times while missing 10+ games. Kaprizov got 2 votes… they were from Joe Smith and another MN writer, I think the PP guy. Ya’ll said he deserved votes over mcdavid

For the first half of last season I did and I’ll stand by it…i’ll sleep just fine…no denying McDavid had an magical “80’s era” scoring season… if only we could have them switch teams and see what Kirill could do with Draisaitl and that Powerplay…

Zegras signs for 3 x $5.75…that’s a sweet bridge deal for him, will be interesting to see how this plays out in 3 years vs those similar aged players who signed 7 or 8 year deals before him…He’s definately following the Mathew Tkachuk playbook to picking his team in 3 years…