2022 MN WILD/NHL THREAD

TheFamousGrouse wrote:

I don’t favor any trades and IMO guys are expecting way too much out of any center that we’d reasonably expect to get on a deadline trade anyway. Don’t mess with the chemistry. Also, pissing away draft picks on rentals is a terrible idea, even in the case of the Wild making a deep run and having low-round picks anyway. For once the Wild have a draft brain trust that can make something out of every pick, so trading them off is the wrong move.

In a normal season I would agree with you, but this season is different to me. We all know the cap challenges facing BG in the coming years and this year seems like the perfect time to go all in! Guys like Pavelski or Giroux would instantly move the needle a lot for this team. Both are great leaders and I dont think they would eff with the mojo at all considering the leaders we have on this team now.

I don’t favor any trades and IMO guys are expecting way too much out of any center that we’d reasonably expect to get on a deadline trade anyway. Don’t mess with the chemistry. Also, pissing away draft picks on rentals is a terrible idea, even in the case of the Wild making a deep run and having low-round picks anyway. For once the Wild have a draft brain trust that can make something out of every pick, so trading them off is the wrong move.

Disagree. I don’t think anyone is saying give up the farm for a rental center. You can’t just live on draft picks forever either. Only so many spots that can be filled each year. Otherwise you are just the Twins. When the right move is there you have to push your chips in to win it all. All the Cup winners do it.
To me there week spot is 2/3 center. Basically Fiala’s Boldy center. Possibly there D size in the playoffs but that is what it is.

CaptainMusky wrote:

Is Kaprizov really on pace for over 100 pts? 1.3pts per game as it sits right now. He would destroy the team record if he keeps at this pace.

Imagine where he’d be with a competent power play… He’s #2 in the league at 5v5 points/60.

I think we’re at the point we can safely call KK a superstar. He’s producing every night and put up points even when not playing well to start the season. He’s having the Panarin effect on Zuccy and Hartman. Hartman just a set a career high for points in less than half a season. Zuccy having the two best points per game seasons of his career at age 33 and 34. All the talk of needing a “legit #1C” to elevate the play of their linemates… it doesn’t have to be a center.

Anyone that said or typed the phrase “He’s holding the Wild hostage” this summer shouldn’t be allowed to cheer for him.

TheFamousGrouse wrote:

I don’t favor any trades and IMO guys are expecting way too much out of any center that we’d reasonably expect to get on a deadline trade anyway. Don’t mess with the chemistry. Also, pissing away draft picks on rentals is a terrible idea, even in the case of the Wild making a deep run and having low-round picks anyway. For once the Wild have a draft brain trust that can make something out of every pick, so trading them off is the wrong move.

My take is Pavelski and Giroux do absolutely nothing for me. The Wild need a center and neither of them played center in at least 2 years.

Tomas Hertl is THEE guy to target. The price will not be cheap though.

JT Miller would be a consolation prize, he’s at least played some center recently. The 1 year remaining complicates things a lot though. Both for the Wild and the Canucks.

Hertl, Pavelski, and Giroux all have basically full NTCs so they might not even allow a trade.

The silver lining to trading assets for a rental center this year is it would ensure Rossi does not burn a year off his ELC, assuming everyone stays healthy.

tswoboda wrote:

Tomas Hertl is THEE guy to target. The price will not be cheap though.

I like Hertl too, but you think the Sharks would trade him with them battling for the playoffs?

CaptainMusky wrote:

I like Hertl too, but you think the Sharks would trade him with them battling for the playoffs?

LOL You’re making me do it again: POINTS PERCENTAGE!!!

Sharks are 6th in the garbage Pacific… they have no shot at the playoffs. (EDIT: Ok fine, The Athletic says they have a < 10% chance at the playoffs.)

Sharks may try to extend him if E-Kane’s salary is truly off their books though.

tswoboda wrote:

LOL You’re making me do it again: POINTS PERCENTAGE!!!

I will take my L again! LOL

I am actually fine with Hartman in that role. He brings a different element that Zucc and KK don’t.
Yes Hertl would be ELITE in that role. Don’t know every center available at this point but someone with some skill to play with Boldy and Fiala would help. Someone that can move up and down the lineup a bit in case of injuries which always happen in the playoffs. Winning face offs and could help on the PP. I mean Freddy hockey won like 3 of 12 face offs the other night.

Pavelski is 188 fow to 156 fol. So unless he is instantly moving to wing off the draw he is still playing enough center. I know Dallas has had a couple injuries down the middle earlier in the season which is why he probably played more center this year.

Giroux is still very much a center.
Has taken well over 500 draws this year at 61percent win percentage.

Taking draws while playing wing is exactly what those guys do… just like JT Miller. They’re all really good at draws but not actually playing center. And yeah I wouldn’t touch the Hartman or Ek lines. Any of the guys I mentioned were as a center for the Fiala/Boldy line. Freddy Hockey would be a good 4th liner utility guy but is in over his head with his role right now.

Yes, Hertl is by far the best Center solution likely available (IF the Sharks are out of the playoff position at the deadline), but he’s also likely the most expensive to get. GMBG desparately wants to give Fiala and Boldy a center with an ounce of offensive ability but he doesn’t want to grossly overpay for a pure rental… I also don’t see Hertl as a rental, whomever goes after him likely has intentions of resigning him long term since the price you’ll pay is very high and he’s in the prime of his career, this is something the Wild just can’t afford…I could see a team like Carolina go after Hertl as a long term replacement for Trochek/Staal and loading up for a run this year…

Giroux has played a ton of center over his career and was playing center the other night when I was watching Philly play, Pavelski has also played alot of center over his career and takes alot of PP draws in Dallas still. Even if these guys aren’t considered Centers anymore, they are two guys who can play WHATEVER position/role you need them to play and they are ALSO great leaders/character guys. Pavelski playing in front of the net or G on the Right hand shot side of the powerplay sounds dreamy. Special teams is a HUGE aspect of the post season with all of the locked down 5 on 5 play due to the refs refusing to call anything in the playoffs, we not only need a 2C option, but we desparetly need a Powerplay guy…

I guess that is what I meant, is that they don’t necessarily need a true 1C in a trade in order to be dangerous in the playoffs.
To me there is a big hole where Freddy is currently playing.
Hertl yes would be awesome but is going to cost a ton. If he even becomes available.
Agree Pavelski and Giroux are better at wing, but not asking them to play 1C either.
JT Miller would take moving a player out from the big club more than likely.

It’s a lot more fun to talk about scenarios than be talking about draft picks that may pan out in three years I know that.
We will see what happens.

Ripjiggen wrote:

It’s a lot more fun to talk about scenarios than be talking about draft picks that may pan out in three years I know that.
We will see what happens.

100%

The other thing to consider is that if the Wild continue to play they way they have been for the rest of the year, they are likely slotted in the 26-32 draft position, so their 1st rounder loses alot of it’s perceived value, plus Judd will have 2 x 2nd round picks this draft to work with…

Yes, Giroux and Pavelski played center most of their career and are great on draws. They take draws and can still play center when there’s injuries, but they do not play center regularly anymore. Same for JT Miller. Here’s the easiest way to show it… their most common linemate is a 100% bonafide center.
Pavelski – Hintz
Giroux – Couturier
Miller – Petterson

I just get massive Nick Foligno vibes from Giroux and Pavelski. That was a huge overpayment and bust for the Leafs last season. Giroux and Pavelski both provide waaayyy more offense but are also 35ish, played center most of their career, and moved to wing the last few years. Just like Foligno.

Yeah the price for Hertl will be the highest, but that’s because he’s the best player right now. He’s a 100% center his entire career and he’s in his prime. If they could get Giroux or Pavelski for cheap then yeah I’m in, but they are big names so I don’t see that happening.

G and Pavelski are still scoring though, Pavelski is only a few points behind Kaprizov…Both would be obvious improvements over Gaudreau 5-5, but their value is found on the power play, obviously an area we’ve struggled with in the playoffs forever…Toronto always gets bullied by their media to go after big names at the deadline even though there are likely smarter options to get…Columbus got away with robbery at last year deadline…

I don’t think any valueable players will come cheap this year, Giroux & Pavelski will both likely require a 1st rounder, perhaps more… I could see GMBG trading Sturm if he gets a decent offer and if Sturm already told him he’ll test FA…Wild have plenty of options for replacing Sturm with ELC guys like McBain (if they can sign him)

Obviously it’s easier for a center to move to wing than vice versa. We are not talking about a long term player so age is not as big of a concern IMO. You would be asking career centers to play third line center over Freddy hockey for 2 months. Hopefully contribute to the PP.

Ripjiggen wrote:

for 2 months.

I like your optimism!

Well you are not trading for a rental center in hopes to make it past the first round.

Ripjiggen wrote:

Well you are not trading for a rental center in hopes to make it past the first round.

indeed.. but with the power of our division this year, getting past the 2nd round would be a legit accomplishment…St Louis just seems to have our number, need to see some more games with both teams at full strength…Colorado is built for the playoffs and their powerplay is elite…5on5 we can hang with anybody, but we also like to take penalties and that will bite you in the playoffs…

Half there penalties won’t be called in the playoffs. Both teams will only get a couple chances if that a game, which is why it is important to capitalize on every once in awhile on the handful of PP chances a team gets. It’s not a guarantee by any means, but like I said you don’t go and get a rental center in hopes to win a round. It’s because you think you can make a deep run and contend for the final. Sometimes it works sometimes it don’t.
Colorado has had the distinction for a couple years now and well it hasn’t exactly worked out for them yet.

Ripjiggen wrote:

You would be asking career centers to play third line center over Freddy hockey for 2 months.

No doubt we agree any one of them is an upgrade over Freddy. That’s the hole that needs to be filled (side note, I deleted this sentence but then re-typed it since it’s too good to omit). I’m probably overblowing the fact they don’t play center anymore. Pittsburgh did exactly that with Jeff Carter last year, and that was the best deal of the deadline.

Gabe Vilardi is a name I hope Guerin keeps an eye on. He’s getting buried under all the other center prospects in LA. That’s more of an off-season deal though.

I don’t think the Blues are very good but they absolutely own the Wild. I don’t understand it. That’s the likely 1st round matchup and the last one I want to see. I’d love to see Nashville sneak into that 2/3 spot… you could mark Fiala down for at least 6 goals that series.

Speaking of Fiala, remember when we almost jinxed him about a month ago. Turns out it didn’t work… he’s hot!

I think the Kings “could” be a serious trade partner for Dumba this offseason if GMBG decides to move forward with Fiala long term instead, we then need to get rid of salary somewhere…Take your pick of the 5+ Kings center prospects, they are all good and they can’t keep all of them…other than 18 yr old Brandt Clark who’s likely 3 years away, the Kings are lacking any D prospects to bring up, so to improve their D, they are going to need to trade or overpay FA’s…

tswoboda wrote:

I’d love to see Nashville sneak into that 2/3 spot…

Nashville has a 6 games played lead over the Wild and several games lead on others in the Central Division, they also have a very tough opponent February schedule, so I fully expect them to slide down the standings list as they start losing games and other teams make up the games played difference. Very surprised they haven’t resigned Forsberg yet…

I keep thinking the Jets will figure it out and start to make a push now that they are healthy, but they just keep losing…

I don’t think Nashville WILL get the 2/3 spot… it’s just something I’d love to see. Pretty confident it will be COL-MIN-STL at 1-2-3. I think Dallas is the odd man out of the playoffs with Nashville and WPG both taking the wild card spots.

I’s guessing every GM in the league has been circling the wagons on LA’s center prospects ever since they drafted Byfield. Vilardi is the guy who looks attainable right now. Byfield is untouchable, Kupari doesn’t do much for me, and Turcotte is still probably not a trade option either.

tswoboda wrote:

I’s guessing every GM in the league has been circling the wagons on LA’s center prospects ever since they drafted Byfield. Vilardi is the guy who looks attainable right now. Byfield is untouchable, Kupari doesn’t do much for me, and Turcotte is still probably not a trade option either.

Another question to ask is starting next year with Rossi in the mix, if we aquire a center of any kind, where would they play? Do the Wild move Hartman back to wing? Not sure if this season is a fluke or not, but Hartman between Kaprizov and Zuc is working really well and he compliments their games and is willing to get to the dirty areas…

so if next years centers look like:
1C – Hartman (2 years left on contract)
2C – Rossi (3 years signed on contract)
3C – Ek (7 years signed on contract)
4C – Sturm/McBain/Shaw/? (2+ years signed on contract)

Where would a young traded for/signed center play in the next 2 seasons? Then you potentially have Khusnidinov and perhaps another future drafted center ready to get in the mix in 3 years?

The Wild needing center depth is so engrained in my soul that I never actually stopped to think about if they need a young center. Hartman moving to center and now establishing himself next to KK has been a game changer. Vilardi is not a 4th liner so he would direct competition with Rossi, not great.

Sturm has been playing himself into the Wild’s future this year. Meaning he hasn’t been great and the Wild can afford to extend him if they want him. Not saying he’s bad, just not as good as last year, and I think we were all hoping to see progression.

All has a bit of a trickle down affect with Fiala moving forward. If he is gone Hartman seems like a logical choice to slide in with say Rossi Boldy. Well then you are back to needing a center. Many ways to skin this cat moving forward. Fiala stays Rossi slots in moving forward and you have some depth.
That will all sort itself out in the off season.

Ripjiggen wrote:

Disagree. I don’t think anyone is saying give up the farm for a rental center. You can’t just live on draft picks forever either.

I said “a center we can reasonably expect to get.” And you disagree.

So what centermen are you predicting will be available to the Wild and what it the price we’re going to be willing to pay?

The problem I see is that the Wild’s need at center is well-known and teams will be looking to take the Wild to the cleaners based on their belief that this is a playoff team on the “win now” train with very limited options. The supply is low and the Wild’s demand is perceived to be very high = Pprce ^^^^^.

Hertl. Not even sure the Wild have cap space to make his $5.6 M salary work without moving multiple roster players and the Sharks would be insane if they didn’t also demand high round picks. Multiple picks. Boy, the Wild would have to treat this like an “all in” move and I can’t see them going there.

Giroux/Pavelski – Sure, possible. But I think the Wild’s perceived need will drive these two players to be priced beyond what the Wild should be willing to pay for either of them as a rental.

Deadline trades for players with contract left? Can’t see who this would involve, if there was a team looking to move a prime centerman what were the Wild waiting for?

I said “a center we can reasonably expect to get.” And you disagree.

So what centermen are you predicting will be available to the Wild and what it the price we’re going to be willing to pay?

The problem I see is that the Wild’s need at center is well-known and teams will be looking to take the Wild to the cleaners based on their belief that this is a playoff team on the “win now” train with very limited options. The supply is low and the Wild’s demand is perceived to be very high = Pprce ^^^^^.

Hertl. Not even sure the Wild have cap space to make his $5.6 M salary work without moving multiple roster players and the Sharks would be insane if they didn’t also demand high round picks. Multiple picks. Boy, the Wild would have to treat this like an “all in” move and I can’t see them going there.

Giroux/Pavelski – Sure, possible. But I think the Wild’s perceived need will drive these two players to be priced beyond what the Wild should be willing to pay for either of them as a rental.

Deadline trades for players with contract left? Can’t see who this would involve, if there was a team looking to move a prime centerman what were the Wild waiting for?

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I don’t know the in/out’s of the NHL Salary cap, but I beleive there’s some pro-rated salary wizardy for the newly aquired player at the deadline??? CapFriendly has a separate value called “Deadline Cap Space” and it says the Wild has over $11 million…I attached a screenshot of the explanation it gives…I know there’s SOME truth to this because i’ve heard the TSN guys quote similar dollar amounts teams have to spend at the deadline…I thought the player’s contract AAV value is the stat to go buy and the team’s player AAV total = the total team caphit, but who knows…