2022 MN WILD/NHL THREAD

JoeMX1825 wrote:

I could see Dumba getting traded to Arizona as well, he helps get them to the cap floor, they could use a veteran D man to help out their youngsters and then he gets them more assets next trade deadline.

If your going to dance with Arizona you might as well go in for Chycrun especially if your sending Dumba that way. Actually the guys on Sirus NHL today speculated Chycrun to the Wild but now he’s hurt so that cools things on him and Arizona likely hangs on to him until the off season. I don’t see Dumba going anywhere for reasons I’ve already stated. Fiala will be gone but that may be more his choice than BG’s. Especially if this team struggles the rest of the year and ends on a sour note.

But then again you never know what BG can talk Leipold into. He talked them into the buyouts so maybe Leipold gives him all the rope he wants until he either hangs himself or he hits the jackpot. This team is just to psychotic to try to predict anything right now. Which is what makes it fun to watch.

Colorado just toughened up their D core adding Josh Manson for a good prospect and a 2023 2nd rounder, that’s a big price tag for Manson…

Ice Cap wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>JoeMX1825 wrote:</div>
I could see Dumba getting traded to Arizona as well, he helps get them to the cap floor, they could use a veteran D man to help out their youngsters and then he gets them more assets next trade deadline.

If your going to dance with Arizona you might as well go in for Chycrun especially if your sending Dumba that way. Actually the guys on Sirus NHL today speculated Chycrun to the Wild but now he’s hurt so that cools things on him and Arizona likely hangs on to him until the off season. I don’t see Dumba going anywhere for reasons I’ve already stated. Fiala will be gone but that may be more his choice than BG’s. Especially if this team struggles the rest of the year and ends on a sour note.

But then again you never know what BG can talk Leipold into. He talked them into the buyouts so maybe Leipold gives him all the rope he wants until he either hangs himself or he hits the jackpot. This team is just to psychotic to try to predict anything right now. Which is what makes it fun to watch.

There’s zero chance the Wild pays the pricetag for Chycrun… but some other GM will, my guess is the Kings since they have too many good prospects to even sign if they wanted to. I think GMBG does what he can to keep Fiala UNLESS his contract demands are just absurd…

Yeah I’m still not sure on Fiala. He is going to ask to get paid.
When he is on he can be electric, but does he make his line mates better?
Does he do other things besides score?
He also plays wing.
I mean he is probably going to ask for 6.5 plus at that price will he ever out produce his contract. I am not sure.
If Boldy played a full season it’s possible Fiala finishes with fourth most goals and fourth most points on team. Can you afford your 4th best forward to even make 6?

Decisions Decisions

Ripjiggen wrote:

Yeah I’m still not sure on Fiala. He is going to ask to get paid.
When he is on he can be electric, but does he make his line mates better?
Does he do other things besides score?
He also plays wing.
I mean he is probably going to ask for 6.5 plus at that price will he ever out produce his contract. I am not sure.
If Boldy played a full season it’s possible Fiala finishes with fourth most goals and fourth most points on team. Can you afford your 4th highest paid forward to even make 6?

Decisions Decisions

I just keep coming back to the argument of in the 21 years of this franchise, how many players have we had with his talent, specifically goal scoring? Do we really want to lose that over possibly the $ difference between having a $750k Mermis over a $2.3m Kulikov? It all comes down to how much Fiala’s camp thinks his worth is… I think GMBG will bend alot, but wont break to sign him, which is the right move imo…

I think at the very worst we can sign him for 1 more year at a modest raise over his $5m? Kick the can I guess but at that point why wouldn’t he just wait to be a UFA?

Yes, he finally has a dynamic wing to play with and we’ve seen his game elevate, but he could absolutely explode next year with Rossi tossing passes to him all game!

Ripjiggen wrote:

Yeah I’m still not sure on Fiala. He is going to ask to get paid.
When he is on he can be electric, but does he make his line mates better?
Does he do other things besides score?
He also plays wing.
I mean he is probably going to ask for 6.5 plus at that price will he ever out produce his contract. I am not sure.
If Boldy played a full season it’s possible Fiala finishes with fourth most goals and fourth most points on team. Can you afford your 4th best forward to even make 6?

Decisions Decisions

So KK puts up more points than Fiala. I’m not sure Boldy outscores Fiala. Seems they get points simultaneously. One scores the other gets the helper for the most part. Don’t know who the third person in the mix is. Does KK do anything but score?

What’s the difference between Zuccarello, Hartman Ek, Foligno and Fiala? The previous four have already broken their career point totals. Fiala has tied his at 54 points which is what he had last year. To me the difference is Fiala has a lot more ceiling room. I’m doubtful the others can reproduce what they did this year. So if Fiala leaves and the others taper off some that’s a lot of points to be made up somewhere.

Fiala was also completely snakebitten the first few months of this season otherwise he would have passed his career best totals awhile ago…

I’m a little late in pointing it out but did we just get another obvious LTIR cap circumvention with the Avs suddenly deciding Landeskog should have a minor surgery likely keeping him out until the playoffs start? This frees up the capspace to get Giroux, only way they could do it after signing Manson…

JoeMX1825 wrote:

I’m a little late in pointing it out but did we just get another obvious LTIR cap circumvention with the Avs suddenly deciding Landeskog should have a minor surgery likely keeping him out until the playoffs start?

I sure think so. That’s what I meant in my earlier post about it when I said the price for Giroux just went up again after the Landeskog announcement. The Av’s are making sure they got the room for the rental expecting to pay top price. They have to be all in this year.

He could finish behind KK Hartman and Boldy for goals. Points behind KK Zuccc and Boldy.

Does KK do anything but score?
How about takes over a game. Is schemed upon by every team.
Elevates his centers to career years.
Plays hard for the most part on most nights.
Is also a well over PPG player.

Look I’m not saying I don’t want him on the team, but there has to be a cutoff for what you can pay him also.

Having your top 3 paid forwards all be wings is not exactly the Stanley cup formula.

The difference between all those guys you mentioned cap outside of Zucc is they all get paid less than half of what he will ask for. In other words you can afford to have those guys not produce their career highs.

Like I said not ragging on Fiala and I think he is a fine player but at what price does it not make sense. He is also one of your better assets to fetch a return.

I just don’t think it’s automatic they pay this man.

Ripjiggen wrote:

He could finish behind KK Hartman and Boldy for goals. Points behind KK Zuccc and Boldy.

Does KK do anything but score?
How about takes over a game. Is schemed upon by every team.
Elevates his centers to career years.
Plays hard for the most part on most nights.
Is also a well over PPG player.

Look I’m not saying I don’t want him on the team, but there has to be a cutoff for what you can pay him also.

Having your top 3 paid forwards all be wings is not exactly the Stanley cup formula.

The difference between all those guys you mentioned cap outside of Zucc is they all get paid less than half of what he will ask for. In other words you can afford to have those guys not produce their career highs.

Like I said not ragging on Fiala and I think he is a fine player but at what price does it not make sense. He is also one of your better assets to fetch a return.

I just don’t think it’s automatic they pay this man.

I definitely think GMBG already has his max $ made up for Fiala, nobody expects Fiala to take a discount and I certainly dont expect GMBG to overpay… Billy will offer him a far deal, it will be upto to Kevin to take it or not. That conversation will take place before the draft and he’ll either get re-signed or he’ll get traded at the draft.

I’m sure the Wild’s “capguy” in the org has a whiteboard in his office with all the scenarios carefully thought out…

Obviously.
Rarely is it that simple.
In the wilds case every move is going to have a domino affect in the coming years.

Ripjiggen wrote:

Obviously.
Rarely is it that simple.
In the wilds case every move is going to have a domino affect in the coming years.

That’s for certain. In Fiala’s case I doubt BG has a set figure in mind already. Still some season left to see how Fiala finishes. And what is Dumba going to ask for, what trades will see who goes and who comes in. Lots of things are going to determine what happens with others. This is going to be a fluid situation once things start to happen. So I doubt anything is set in stone. My biggest fear is they over pay Dumba at the expense of keeping Fiala. Don’t think it can’t happen.

I agree what you’re saying about just paying Fiala Rip. It has to be workable for both sides. But I think if you get him at $6.5 to $7M for three years the Wild better jump on it. I just don’t see many ways you win a Fiala trade.

What’s the difference between Zuccarello, Hartman Ek, Foligno and Fiala? The previous four have already broken their career point totals. Fiala has tied his at 54 points which is what he had last year. To me the difference is Fiala has a lot more ceiling room. I’m doubtful the others can reproduce what they did this year. So if Fiala leaves and the others taper off some that’s a lot of points to be made up somewhere.

[/quote]
The difference is Fiala has the consistent habit of trying a risky move to beat someone with a one on one move with no support behind him.
Even Dumba has improved on this area of his game.
If the wild move on from Fiala or give him a low offer this will be why.
He has proven that he cannot or will not stop turning the puck over in bad positions.
It’s one thing to turn the puck over deep in the o zone from turning it over at the blue line with no one behind you.

Ripjiggen wrote:

In the wilds case every move is going to have a domino affect in the coming years.

And we saw that this year with the offseason acquisitions. BG was really hoping to get the big brother Foligno, but when that didnt happen he missed out on some other moves. In hindsight I am glad they didnt get Nick, but at the time it seemed like a missed opportunity. We also could have signed Bonino which I think would have been better for faceoffs, but certainly didnt move the meter much. Is Johansson playing anywhere?

Ice Cap wrote:

In Fiala’s case I doubt BG has a set figure in mind already.

It’s 1 guys job to only deal with the team’s salary cap, they’ve thought the next 3 years through forwards and backwards, yes there will be changes needed to be made as things are always fluid, but trust me they’ve gone through every single scenario possible, they know exactly what they can afford to pay Fiala as well as several scenarios around what if he asks for XX% more than their max, could we move X contract to make that difference up, at what point do they cut bait and trade him, etc etc etc…

CaptainMusky wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Ripjiggen wrote:</div>
In the wilds case every move is going to have a domino affect in the coming years.

And we saw that this year with the offseason acquisitions. BG was really hoping to get the big brother Foligno, but when that didnt happen he missed out on some other moves. In hindsight I am glad they didnt get Nick, but at the time it seemed like a missed opportunity. We also could have signed Bonino which I think would have been better for faceoffs, but certainly didnt move the meter much. Is Johansson playing anywhere?

I think last year was a bit of an exception case as the teams #1 signing priority (Kaprizov) was such a Wildcard in terms of what his AAV could be they needed to keep so much $ in reserve to account for that…now that they finally have SOME cost certainty, they know what their min/max to work with is…

JoeMX1825 wrote:

now that they finally have SOME cost certainty, they know what their min/max to work with is…

Valid point.

It’s one thing to turn the puck over deep in the o zone from turning it over at the blue line with no one behind you.

You just described Dumba to a T and he’s a defense man. Fiala has cleaned his game up considerably in that area if he hadn’t he’d be gone already or sitting on the bench and getting 5 to 7 minutes toi. Evanson has already demonstrated he will not tolerate that from Fiala without repercussions. KK’s turnovers can be just as glaring as Fiala’s as well as some of his behind the back blind passes that go into no mans land. KK also try’s to split the defense or toe drag around someone entering the zone and most of the time it doesn’t work out. Fiala does not suffer by comparison as badly as most people think.

The thing is this what you have to tolerate with elite scoring forwards and coaches do because elite scoring forwards aren’t just laying around. If you have one on your team you’re lucky. Two you are blessed.

Just noticed the game is on TNT tomorrow. Now that the Wild are on a skid I wonder if Carter can take the high road and be objective or if he will take the opportunity to kick them and or Russo when their down. My guess it won’t be the high road.

Ice Cap wrote:

Just noticed the game is on TNT tomorrow. Now that the Wild are on a skid I wonder if Carter can take the high road and be objective or if he will take the opportunity to kick them and or Russo when their down. My guess it won’t be the high road.

well, he hasn’t exactly been wrong since he said it has he? he took alot of crap too…if he was willing to take the high road he wouldn’t have ever started the drama, but it keeps his name (and TNT) in the news cycle so you know for sure he’ll bring it up…

Fiala does not = KK

Let’s for fun take a look at guys that get paid 7 million. Or just under. Let’s throw Fleury out as he is a goalie. Trying not to be biased how many would pick Fiala over the guys on the list. Age obviously plays a factor so let’s say it’s a 1 year deal.
May as well throw the D men out too I guess.

Pacioretty
VGK
LW $7,000,000
Joe Pavelski
DAL
C $7,000,000
James Van Riemsdyk
PHI
LW $7,000,000
Marc-Andre Fleury
CHI
G $7,000,000
Gabriel Landeskog
COL
LW $7,000,000
Matthew Tkachuk
CGY
LW $7,000,000
Anders Lee
NYI
C $7,000,000
Mathew Barzal
NYI
C $7,000,000
Marc-Edouard Vlasic
SJS
D $7,000,000
72
William Nylander
TOR
C $6,962,366
73
Ryan Kesler
ANA
C $6,875,000
Brent Seabrook
TBL
D $6,875,000
Patrice Bergeron
BOS
C $6,875,000

As I have said before it’s not his analysis that was the problem it was how quickly and deliberately he threw the race card on a guy like Russo. Ugh, we’ve hashed all this before I shouldn’t have brought it up.

But yeah even if he’s objective and honest it’s still going to be a dig on the Wild coming from him.

Rip, I dont see Fiala as comparables to those players do you?

Rip I never said Fiala=KK. I was just pointing out neither are without their flaws. Every player means something different to their team and teams hope they are paying accordingly to what that player brings to that team. Sometimes a player is over paid and sometimes teams get a bargain. Across a 3,4 or 6 year contract there will be some years that player is worth every penny and others where he might be way over payed. You just hope it evens out.

Here is a article comparing some current stats of Fiala and how they compare to some other players around the league. Even has some of those charts and graphs that make my eyes glaze over.

Ripjiggen wrote:

Fiala does not = KK

Let’s for fun take a look at guys that get paid 7 million. Or just under. Let’s throw Fleury out as he is a goalie. Trying not to be biased how many would pick Fiala over the guys on the list. Age obviously plays a factor so let’s say it’s a 1 year deal.
May as well throw the D men out too I guess.

Pacioretty
VGK
LW $7,000,000
Joe Pavelski
DAL
C $7,000,000
James Van Riemsdyk
PHI
LW $7,000,000
Marc-Andre Fleury
CHI
G $7,000,000
Gabriel Landeskog
COL
LW $7,000,000
Matthew Tkachuk
CGY
LW $7,000,000
Anders Lee
NYI
C $7,000,000
Mathew Barzal
NYI
C $7,000,000
Marc-Edouard Vlasic
SJS
D $7,000,000
72
William Nylander
TOR
C $6,962,366
73
Ryan Kesler
ANA
C $6,875,000
Brent Seabrook
TBL
D $6,875,000
Patrice Bergeron
BOS
C $6,875,000

I would put Fiala in the same boat as Nylander and Landeskog, the big difference with them is the players they play with vs the garbage Fiala gets (outside of getting Boldy the last 20+ games and once he got Boldy, he exploded)

KK is in the lower end of the Superstar group with Mathews, McDavid, Draisaitl and a few others…
Fiala is the lower end of the 2nd tier scorers group imo…

Point being he doesn’t deserve superstar money, but he deserves the next level ($7aav range)

JoeMX1825 wrote:

I would put Fiala in the same boat as Nylander and Landeskog, the big difference with them is the players they play with vs the garbage Fiala gets (outside of getting Boldy the last 20+ games and once he got Boldy, he exploded)

Yeah, I guess I could see Nylander and Landeskog. Very comparable stats, but if Fiala didnt start so dang slow he would be blowing those guys out of the water right now.

CaptainMusky wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>JoeMX1825 wrote:</div>
I would put Fiala in the same boat as Nylander and Landeskog, the big difference with them is the players they play with vs the garbage Fiala gets (outside of getting Boldy the last 20+ games and once he got Boldy, he exploded)

Yeah, I guess I could see Nylander and Landeskog. Very comparable stats, but if Fiala didnt start so dang slow he would be blowing those guys out of the water right now.

Landeskog does a few more things on the ice and is a better leader, but the Nylander comparison is spot on imo…and look at their linemates vs Fiala…

CaptainMusky wrote:

Rip, I dont see Fiala as comparables to those players do you?

I don’t. Can he be? Maybe. Dunno. It’s interesting talking point however. I think 7 mill for like I said before is your 3-4 best forward is a lot. Especially for a wing. Would it make more sense to put that money towards a center option instead?

Decisions Decisions…

Landeskog is 30 years old so has five more years experience under his belt but Nylander and Fiala are a year or so apart. I will add I think Fiala has found his maturity this year. He accepts responsibility for his play. He realizes he needs to improve areas of his game and he feels responsibility to his team mates to play the right way. At least that what comes through in his post game pressers and I think he proved it when he apologized to Evason on the bench during the game for taking three penalties in a row. Evason puts him back on the ice and he wins the game in a shoot out. That was a big turning point and he’s been a different player since then.

At 25 that’s a bit late for a player to develop the maturity level they need to succeed ideally you’d like to see that at least three years sooner but because of this one could expect Fiala to have a breakout year next year with out the 25 game slump.