2021 MN Wild/NHL Thread

I like the Wilds prospects as much as anybody but I am curbing my enthusiasm on expectations from what they are capable of doing this year. Right now regardless of the Wild wanting to admit it or not they are counting on these kids to step up. Big time. Rossi has the most potential but he hasn’t played a live game in what, 18 months other than a handful of international games. To expect him to step into a NHL environment and succeed is a bit unrealistic. Boldy and Addison are not the talent as Rossi so their chance at success at the NHL level at this point is even less.

The truth is the Wild are one maybe two injuries away from a disastrous season. Most teams in the division have improved. Chicago a prime example. No feasting on the Ducks, Kings, Sharks or Yotes this upcoming season. Yet, stay tuned for how that plays out because I don’t think a full regular season is by any means a lock yet.

Boldy is every bit the prospect Rossi is, he just doesn’t play center anymore so he loses some value from a prospect perspective. If he ends up playing with Fiala I could easily see him in the running for the Calder. The kid has ideal size and elite puck skills around the net which should equate to some bonus powerplay success.

Every team is 1-2 injuries away from a lost season depending on who gets hurt…

As far as next year specifically, it’s hard to be very optimistic given the lack of off season acquisitions. And so many things would have to go exceptionally well for the Rossi / Boldy to produce at a high level right out of the gates.

Having said that I am perfectly fine with it. Have said many times I’d rather watch the young guys develop and get some new team leadership going. As long as we sign KK to a decent deal that is the huge lynchpin to build around

lindyrig79 wrote:

As far as next year specifically, it’s hard to be very optimistic given the lack of off season acquisitions. And so many things would have to go exceptionally well for the Rossi / Boldy to produce at a high level right out of the gates.

Having said that I am perfectly fine with it. Have said many times I’d rather watch the young guys develop and get some new team leadership going. As long as we sign KK to a decent deal that is the huge lynchpin to build around

I guess the only thing I’d say about our lack of offseason acquisitions is that we obviously didn’t get a 1C/2C, but when you look at the prices needed to get one and the limited selection of quality centers available, those needs were likely not going to be filled anyways. There were at least 5 teams (Wild, Blue Jackets, Golden Knights, Canucks, Bruins) who were desperately looking for centers and didn’t get one this offseason…You need to fill that position from within and we have several promising prospects knocking on the door…
The price of FA defenseman was out of control, so do you overpay just for the sake of getting somebody with a last name you’ve heard of? (Derek Forbort is a great example at $3aav) I think our extra capspace this year will afford GMBG the ability to get a good D cheap off a team crunching to get cap complaint before the season starts…

So true.

I don’t think the moves made this off season were to necessarily build on their playoff appearance last year. If Rossi isn’t at least a 2C sooner than later this team could struggle for a while. In order to be a cup contender you have to hit in your top ten picks when you get them.IMO Rosssi is definitely a more important prospect than Boldy.
They are going to be tiny on the back end and that will be tough long run.
KK contract will shape this teams future one way or another.

The truth is the Wild are one maybe two injuries away from a disastrous season. Most teams in the division have improved. Chicago a prime example. No feasting on the Ducks, Kings, Sharks or Yotes this upcoming season. Yet, stay tuned for how that plays out because I don’t think a full regular season is by any means a lock yet.

I think this is spot on, the true cup contenders can have players miss a few games or even a season.
If the wild were to lose a player to half a season I doubt they make the playoffs, much less make a deep run.

If they can somehow figure out how to win some facoffs, they might have a chance, with the centers on the team now.

Buying out Suter and losing Soucy changed the entire outlook of how the Wild approached free agency. All of a sudden the priority switched from obtaining at least a decent center to a fire wagon approach to shoring up a defense that was their strength up until those two things happened.

Nick Foligno by no fault of his own didn’t help the Wild by taking his time in making his decision on what offer to accept. Not improving up the middle is IMO giving KK pause. Russo reported early on KK wanted to see a clear plan on how the Wild were going to improve the center position and wanted to see that plan started to be implemented. Evason stuck Rask in the middle of KK and Zucarello and showed very little interest in trying something different there. I think that really frustrated number 97. Rask is our new Vanek.

In that respect nothing has changed for KK. I don’t think he sees pinning the hopes on a prospect who hasn’t played in over a year as a solid response to improving the middle of the ice. I know I’m in the minority but there is more going on here than just a agent trying to get the best deal for his client. There is a or more major stumbling blocks holding this up. BG may have to knuckle under to a three year deal and know in all likelihood that will be the extent of 97 in a Wild sweater or he may get no deal. KK was in no hurry to get here and it may not bother him to go back.

You don’t think they knew they were buying out Suter and in turn knew they were probably losing Soucy? If it was a fire wagon as you say that was pretty poor planning. I am pretty sure that scenario was played out many times over and over.

Ripjiggen wrote:

You don’t think they knew they were buying out Suter and in turn knew they were probably losing Soucy? If it was a fire wagon as you say that was pretty poor planning. I am pretty sure that scenario was played out many times over and over.

I Agree, there’s no surprises here (from the internal Wild Management perspective) maybe they originally thought they had the inside track on Nick Foligno, but that likely changed early in the morning of FA when he told them he was likely Boston bound, but he would have been AT BEST a 3rd line player on the Wild, more likely a 4th line guy…

I think GMBG and other Wild management had a game plan before FA started to NOT overspend on anybody because their cap is so tight in the near future. Once guys they were interested in starting signing over the limit the Wild had thought of them, GMBG closed his cap wallet…

GMBG has mentioned numerous times they have a huge white board in the exec offices and they’ve planned this all out for 6+ months and presented it to the owner, who signed off on the buyouts…

Ripjiggen wrote:

You don’t think they knew they were buying out Suter and in turn knew they were probably losing Soucy? If it was a fire wagon as you say that was pretty poor planning. I am pretty sure that scenario was played out many times over and over.

I agree with you. It was pretty well considered that Soucy was the one the Kraken were going to take. Kahkonnen emerged, but the other goalies available surely showed Soucy would be taken over him. That was really a no brainer.
Fire sale? That is laughable considering Guerin has said publicly that they have been talking about the buyouts for “months” so to think this just suddenly happened and they didnt think about the impacts of that decision is pure rhetoric. BG has surrounded himself by peers with as much or more experience as he has all these things were hashed out over a long period of time and not just some knee jerk decision. They werent going to overpay for some of the D options out there and really couldnt do multi-year deals which would lead players to pick other offers if there was a multi-year deal. Goligoski is probably an overpay this year, but it seems there is a verbal agreement potentially in place to sign a longer deal for low cap later which makes sense since they had the cap space this year, but its getting tighter.

Remember Wild fans, yes it’s a bit scary still not having Kaprizov signed yet, but at least were not Vancouver that still have BOTH Elias Pettersson and Quinn Hughes unsigned with only $10 in cap space left…

so it could be alot worse….

JoeMX1825 wrote:

Remember Wild fans, yes it’s a bit scary still not having Kaprizov signed yet, but at least were not Vancouver that still have BOTH Elias Pettersson and Quinn Hughes unsigned with only $10 in cap space left…

so it could be alot worse….

Sheesh, I knew neither were signed, but I never looked into their cap situation.

Found a nice writeup today about Marat today from 10K Rinks. This Tony Abbott does some very good stuff.

from a (MONEY PERSPECTIVE ONLY) i’ve been trying to figure out Kaprizov’s agent’s long term game plan and it really just doesn’t make sense….

(take out any taxes, agent commission, escrow payments out of this argument, It’s just easier to do with simple math)

Kirill’s Agent Plan:
So his agent wants him to sign a 3 year deal with the Wild at say $8aav, so that’s $24 million total.
He hits FA at age 27 but the salary cap is still flat for 2 more years..
He would then want Kirill to sign a 7 year max FA deal with somebody else and let’s just say he could get $11aav, so $77 million total (I assumed the Wild wouldn’t bend over and trade him to the team he would eventually sign for so he could get the 8th year)

BUT that also puts him at 34 years old, so at that age realistically he might get 1 more NHL contract at say 4 more years at say $10aav, so $40 million

So his Agent idea career total earnings would be= $141 Million

Here’s the Wild’s plan:

They sign Kirill at a max 8 x $10aav deal, so $80 (I’m lowballing here on a 8 year deal, it’s rumored the Wild are currently offering 5-6 years x $9aav)

This takes him to age 32, he could then sign a 6 year deal at say $13aav for a total of $78 (I gave the extra $3 aav for his second Wild contract based on him being 2 years younger and because he’s then staying with the Wild for his entire career, most teams re-sign their superstars at an overpayment to ensure they stay with their team, I agree this is where my numbers could move 1-2 million per) Maybe the Wild even offer him a 7 year or even another max 8 year deal and sign him until he’s 40 years old, obviously doubtful based on what we went through with Parise and Suter, but it would be an option only the Wild could offer…

So his grand total career earnings with the Wild would be = $158 Million

With the Wild’s plan he’s making $17 million more over his career (give or take some)

Maybe I over thought it, but from my point of view, it doesn’t make sense to leave the Wild if this is all about money…

JoeMX1825 wrote:

Remember Wild fans, yes it’s a bit scary still not having Kaprizov signed yet, but at least were not Vancouver that still have BOTH Elias Pettersson and Quinn Hughes unsigned with only $10 in cap space left…

so it could be alot worse….

Sorry that doesn’t make me feel better.
That’s like telling a Vikings fan it could be worse we could be Detroit.

Just saying we don’t have the only RFA’s that are throwing contract fits…

I know…If it is just about money that is an easier hurdle to overcome than some of the other issues with the Wild he may have.

“It could be worse” is the Minnesota motto.

Maybe his plan is simply to get kirill to UFA ASAP so he can negotiate with 30 teams instead of 1. Maybe he really wants out of Minnesota. Maybe it’s all just smoke and mirrors so he can make this contact as rich as possible.

The current prospect pool is really exciting… light-years ahead of the most recent crop of tuch/jeek/Greenway/kunin. But is it better than the 2012 pool of Granlund/Dumba/Brodin/Coyle/Zucker/Haula?

The idea of Kirill wanting out so he can play with other superstars on other teams is just not thinking in reality… what team with superstars has the capspace to add him? None!

tswoboda wrote:

But is it better than the 2012 pool of Granlund/Dumba/Brodin/Coyle/Zucker/Haula?

That is a very good question. They were so highly touted for sure. I did some searching and I found this gem…https://lastwordonsports.com/2012/09/09/top-shelf-prospects-nhl-team-rankings-the-top-15/

JoeMX1825 wrote:

The idea of Kirill wanting out so he can play with other superstars on other teams is just not thinking in reality… what team with superstars has the capspace to add him? None!

Who said anything about wanting to play with other superstars?

Nice to have you back in the convo TSW. Hope your trip to Canada went well.
Yeah didn’t say anything about playing with super stars maybe he wants to live in a bigger market. Maybe the ways to play in a more successful franchise, maybe he wants to play in warm weather. Who knows.

tswoboda wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>JoeMX1825 wrote:</div>
The idea of Kirill wanting out so he can play with other superstars on other teams is just not thinking in reality… what team with superstars has the capspace to add him? None!

Who said anything about wanting to play with other superstars?

that’s been 1/2 of the unofficial argument talk tracks for why he won’t sign long term, he wants to see a plan for upgrading the talent (mostly center) around him or he’ll want out as soon as he’s a ufa.

Again its all speculation, but its all we have to go by… it makes no sense which is why I brought it up…

I think you/we are naive to think if he wants to play with a true top center and/or an established franchise playoff/ SC team that in 3 or so years he is only relegated to the teams at the bottom in the nhl currently you have mentioned in the past…

Ripjiggen wrote:

I think you/we are naive to think if he wants to play with a true top center and/or an established franchise playoff/ SC team that in 3 or so years he is only relegated to the teams at the bottom in the nhl currently you have mentioned in the past…

name even 1 good team, let alone a SC contender that has $10-$12 million in capspace, no way they would give away the multiple key players of their core to make the money side possible…especially with a relatively flat cap the next 4-5 years…

That’s why i’m saying its a pipe dream (if he’s even thinking of it, which we don’t know)

I’m just trying to put the puzzle together, peeling away all the b.s excuses floating around…

Your red and green crystal ball is super clear. Your right no other playoff team or big market team has a chance at moving cap space for him 3-4 years from now. No other big market playoff team besides the Wild will have anyone else to offer to play with besides a 37 year old 5 footer. Who by in large part had his career revitalized by playing with KK. Did you have Montreal as a SC contender this year? Should be signed sealed and delivered then..no? What’s the hold up then it surly can’t be for a mill or less per year.

JoeMX1825 wrote:

The idea of Kirill wanting out so he can play with other superstars on other teams is just not thinking in reality… what team with superstars has the capspace to add him? None!

Russo reported early on Kaprizov camp wanted to see the Wild upgrade the center ice position or at least see a plan of how the Wild planned to do so and even see the plan begin to take shape. So far the Wild have done nothing in that regard with the exception of pinning their hopes on a prospect to play at a high level this year and make a run at a center with a busted up neck. I don’t think thats what KK camp considers a solid plan. I don’t think asking for a upgrade from Victor Rask is unreasonable or hard to believe this would come directly from Kirill.

Something is clearly holding this deal up and it’s not money. If it’s all about term and all KK will settle for is three years that indicates to me he may not like where this franchise is positioned for the foreseeable future. So I don’t think it’s a giant leap to think he just does not see Minnesota as a place he wants to spend four five or six years of his career at. Who’s to say he would not take less money to be somewhere else where he felt he had better talent around him to maximize his own?

So it’s not superstars or other teams he specifically asked the Wild to improve the talent around him. Now if you think he has the right to make those types of demands or not is another discussion. Btw Joe I’m not trying to be combative or argumentative with you as you always have great posts. All any of us can do is guess and speculate and we all guess and speculate differently which is great.

Discussions are fun! Keep the thoughts/ideas going!

I’ve been one of the biggest Rask haters and totally agree that Kirill probably shrills at the thought of playing with him again, but GMBG can’t make teams trade away their best centers, he also can’t overpay and give up a top prospect & future 1st round picks for a decent 2C (The rumored asking price for Christian Dvorak) as longterm that likely hurts the team, so he’s in a tough spot both from a top Center availability/realistic asking price standpoint and a super tight salary cap the next 3 years…

Realistically if Kirill asked that question, the only honest answer any GM could give is that they are always looking to upgrade the center slot and draft to improve the position. It’s not like GMBG is going to tell him “Nope, we’re not looking to improve the organization’s #1 need, suck it up and play with Victor”

And IF Parise and Suter were never bought out we would still be in the same/worse cap situation in 2, 3, 4 years from now, so its not like GMBG made anything worse from a center acquisition standpoint doing the buyouts.

JoeMX1825 wrote:

And IF Parise and Suter were never bought out we would still be in the same/worse cap situation in 2, 3, 4 years from now, so its not like GMBG made anything worse from a center acquisition standpoint doing the buyouts.

Exactly this. I’ve gotten into so many Twitter debates where people are convinced they are in a worse place those years because of the buyouts yet the cap hit is lower than if they actually were on the roster. People don’t understand numbers for some reason. They are only worse off the last year’s with the dead money. You can argue buying out Suter puts them in a worse place because he’s still serviceable that’s fine but it’s they aren’t worse off cap wise. One guy was arguing that Rask being off the books next year doesn’t help the wild because of the “increased buyout cap hits”.