2021 MN Wild/NHL Thread

Do the typical 8-10 games you get out of a burned ELC of a college signed player make that much of a difference? I agree it CAN if that team makes a long 20 game run in the playoffs (like Cole Caufield and the Canadians) but what if Montreal was swept in 4 games in the opening round? Jordan Greenway got a total of 11 NHL games when he signed after BU was eliminated his junior year, do you think those 11 games of limited icetime he got were more critical to his development vs the 14 games Boldy got in Iowa playing a regular shift and special teams?

I agree it would have been nice to see Boldy in the playoffs (I was constantly calling for it) but GMBG had other plans for his development (Lots of icetime in the AHL vs 4th line role in the NHL)

If he makes the Wild this season, all of the other college guys (Caufield/Newhook who I can think of on the top of my head) that signed when he did will only have 10-30 more NHL games than he does as well as 2 more years on their ELC…

Ripjiggen wrote:

Kind of like Joe Mauer didn’t have a killer instinct. Look Suter and Parise did what they could and won a lot of games.
They were not the reason for lack of playoff success when they were here. I so far have not been that impressed with BG. I get it takes time to work a plan. At this point he has his best two players unsigned and created a cap hell scenario for the next several years. Yes he drafted Rossi and Boldy but then again that was exactly a sly GM move.

Fenton drafted Boldy

I don’t get the caphell that was created by GMBG argument? He actually freed up capspace…Parise and Suter’s contracts would have us in worse shape in years 2-4 (I think this season they could still have been serviceable on the ice, especially Suter) if they are still on the team but relegated to bottom lineup guys taking a roster spot or press box guys who still have influence in the locker room and still costing us $15 million per season in capspace, nevermind the threat of cap recapture penalties if either said “F the Wild i’m not sitting in the pressbox anymore” and retired early.

The buyouts created 2 expansion draft protection slots for Dumba and one of Sturm/Greenway/Hartman/Foligno and it saves us $10 million this season, $4 million next season, then $1 million in years 3 & 4 (yes we are then on the hook for $1.6 in years 5-8 but the cap will assuredly go up by then) and removed ALL WORRIES about cap recapture in the future.

Why is everyone so hung up on BG creating this “cap hell”. We were already in cap hell. He saved us the most amount of money he could. Had he not gotten rid of those two we STILL would have not had any money to use, AND those two would’ve no shot at playing here for another 4 years anyway so we’d be in the same spot we are now.

Is it ideal? No. But we also wouldn’t have had money to sign Fiala AND KK if he hadn’t done it. If they sign of course.

Russo has come out and said several times lately that he had been describing the buyout pain all wrong early on as it was always going to be there for the Wild the next 4 years, what GMBG did was probably the best move in hindsight as it gives the Wild cost assurance the next 4 years that they would not have had if they went any other option besides the buyouts (threat of cap recapture) and it allowed them to protect 2 additional valuable assets in the draft and develop new players/prospects vs letting the 2 aging vets stay on…

JoeMX1825 wrote:

Do the typical 8-10 games you get out of a burned ELC of a college signed player make that much of a difference? I agree it CAN if that team makes a long 20 game run in the playoffs (like Cole Caufield and the Canadians) but what if Montreal was swept in 4 games in the opening round? Jordan Greenway got a total of 11 NHL games when he signed after BU was eliminated his junior year, do you think those 11 games of limited icetime he got were more critical to his development vs the 14 games Boldy got in Iowa playing a regular shift and special teams?

I agree it would have been nice to see Boldy in the playoffs (I was constantly calling for it) but GMBG had other plans for his development (Lots of icetime in the AHL vs 4th line role in the NHL)

If he makes the Wild this season, all of the other college guys (Caufield/Newhook who I can think of on the top of my head) that signed when he did will only have 10-30 more NHL games than he does as well as 2 more years on their ELC…

The guys you mentioned… Caufield, Newhook, (and Knight) were all signed to help their teams win playoff games. Jordan Greenway was signed 3 years ago to help the Wild win in the playoffs, same for EEK the year before. Boldy was signed because he threatened to play 2 more years in college and become a UFA. That’s the difference.

Now Boldy’s next contract comes due when Zuccarello is still on the books for $6m. That’s a big deal.

mahtofire14 wrote:

Why is everyone so hung up on BG creating this “cap hell”. We were already in cap hell. He saved us the most amount of money he could. Had he not gotten rid of those two we STILL would have not had any money to use, AND those two would’ve no shot at playing here for another 4 years anyway so we’d be in the same spot we are now.

Is it ideal? No. But we also wouldn’t have had money to sign Fiala AND KK if he hadn’t done it. If they sign of course.

The Suter buyout is the one in question. He is still considered a serviceable top 4 D-man league wide and we’ll see how he ages over that Dallas contract.

I was in the camp of hoping they would eventually go on LTIR just like all the other cap-recapture contracts have. Shea Weber is clearly trending in that direction – Burgervan has basically spelled it out directly for us.

Ripjiggen wrote:

Kind of like Joe Mauer didn’t have a killer instinct. Look Suter and Parise did what they could and won a lot of games.
They were not the reason for lack of playoff success when they were here. I so far have not been that impressed with BG. I get it takes time to work a plan. At this point he has his best two players unsigned and created a cap hell scenario for the next several years. Yes he drafted Rossi and Boldy but then again that was exactly a sly GM move.

GMBG’s fan love comes from his personality. We were starved for a GM with a little charisma after suffering through Paul Fenton for less than a year. He’s had good and bad moves, none particularly terrible or amazing. The one thing he’s preached since day 1 is creating a winning culture and I think everyone can agree that was apparent last season. There was buzz about the Wild league wide for the first time I can ever remember. Most of that probably due to KK97 but I think the GM deserves some credit as well.

So the Wild filed for arbitration with Fiala. From a money standpoint it makes sense since Fiala is a guy who’s numbers have always been lower than what his talent level looks like. But if this actually makes it to arbitration, this has to mean Fiala is eventually traded before he becomes a UFA. Don’t see him being here long term after the team taking him to arbitration.

The WILD have filed for arbitration with Fiala……very interesting move. That basically means a one year deal right?

mahtofire14 wrote:

The WILD have filed for arbitration with Fiala……very interesting move. That basically means a one year deal right?

Probably 2 years because Fiala gets to choose the term and that would walk him straight to UFA status. Most arbitration filings don’t actually make it to arbitration, but team elected arbitration is a whole different animal.

So weird. I get why they are doing it, but man, I could see this getting under Fiala’s skin and him holding a grudge. Seems kind of like that type of guy.

tswoboda wrote:

Probably 2 years because Fiala gets to choose the term and that would walk him straight to UFA status. Most arbitration filings don’t actually make it to arbitration, but team elected arbitration is a whole different animal.

Both teams submit contract offers (1 and 2 years) the arbitrator decides which contract value, but Fiala will get to choose the term which undoubtedly will be 2 years I think. He was a struggle to get signed last time. Russo predicted it again this time.
They can still ink a deal before the arbitrator decides.

Back to the buyouts, yeah, the Suter one was from out of nowhere BUT if BG had any concerns about Suter playing beyond this year the ONLY opportunity to buy him out was this year because after this year they would have not saved anything. I had run the calculations many times from the CapFriendly site and I think I even shared the details in a comment in this thread once the comparisons, but too lazy to look for it and you cannot run the calculator anymore on CapFriendly.
They freed up space this year and next which is paramount.

mahtofire14 wrote:

So weird. I get why they are doing it, but man, I could see this getting under Fiala’s skin and him holding a grudge. Seems kind of like that type of guy.

I think this is just the Wild’s way to ensure a contract gets done. Players file for it all the time. Its not nearly as usual for a team to do it however.

tswoboda wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>mahtofire14 wrote:</div>
Why is everyone so hung up on BG creating this “cap hell”. We were already in cap hell. He saved us the most amount of money he could. Had he not gotten rid of those two we STILL would have not had any money to use, AND those two would’ve no shot at playing here for another 4 years anyway so we’d be in the same spot we are now.

Is it ideal? No. But we also wouldn’t have had money to sign Fiala AND KK if he hadn’t done it. If they sign of course.

The Suter buyout is the one in question. He is still considered a serviceable top 4 D-man league wide and we’ll see how he ages over that Dallas contract.

I was in the camp of hoping they would eventually go on LTIR just like all the other cap-recapture contracts have. Shea Weber is clearly trending in that direction – Burgervan has basically spelled it out directly for us.

I agree. 1 had to be done the other there were other options. I just think some are giving BG credit for having the stones to do this or he’s a tough negotiator or praising every move or lack there of he has done. at this point he has yet to do much except get rid of a goalie that well is clearly not an nhl goalie anymore.
I am not a BG hater by any means just feel like some think he is the greatest GM already and I just have yet to see any of that. He’s a former player so he likes to talk weather it’s to media or fans that doesn’t really do much for me as far as being a good GM.

Stu Grimson on NHL Network just thought Fiala would earn 4 to 5 Million on this deal. He must’ve took too many hits to the head.
If it’s that range I will be VERY shocked. I’m thinking 6 but we’ll see. He said comparable was Ehlers which is right where he’s at and then said the 4 to 5 Million? Lol

BG will have his defining moments soon enough. Once the Kaprizov, and Fiala contracts either work themselves out or they are both gone will be a defining moment. I wish this Eichel thing would go away. He’s a enormous risk at a enormous cost that could set this franchise back ten years. They say they are out of it but if Buffalo is willing to compromise and come down in price at all the Wild will be right back in it. The only reason I can think of that they are in on Eichel is to satisfy Kaprizov. That’s doing the wrong thing for the wrong reason.

Free agency would have had a different approach for BG had those two contracts had been signed. Not knowing kind of hamstrung him I think. At least he didn’t really overspend but we wound up with a lot of sideways moves. Didn’t really make any great improvements and may not have lost ground either. We shall see soon enough I guess.

^^^Isn’t that on BG.

^^ Perhaps but not necessarily. All BG and the Wild can do is make the offer after that it’s up to the player and his agent. I think the Wild felt they offered Kaprizov a contract they thought was more than fair and expected he would sign it. Russo said today if it would be any other agent this would have been signed at the time of the offering or shortly there after. They are giving him elite NHL player money and terms in the area of Brayden Point and Wersinski without having to prove it like they did. 55 career NHL games against 7 other teams is a small sample size imo. I can’t imagine any other player or any other team offering a 8X9 deal with that number of NHL games under his belt.

I think a 4 or 5 year deal at a lot less money might be a wiser thing for the Wild to do with him at this point.

What other recourse is there when a player/agent thinks he’s worth $8 million a year and the team thinks $5-6 million is max…you have an arbitrator decide, but while waiting for the decision, Fiala’s camp will get feedback from around the league on what they think he’s worth and if they get bad vibes that $5 is the likely decision, they call GMBG up and ask for $6+ per on a longer term deal or if they want to take on the injury risk, they accept the 2 x $5 award and walk to FA while likely getting traded beforehand…

As others have said, at least we’ll get a resolution in a few weeks…

as for that Kaprizov guy…….

Ice Cap wrote:

BG will have his defining moments soon enough. Once the Kaprizov, and Fiala contracts either work themselves out or they are both gone will be a defining moment. I wish this Eichel thing would go away. He’s a enormous risk at a enormous cost that could set this franchise back ten years. They say they are out of it but if Buffalo is willing to compromise and come down in price at all the Wild will be right back in it. The only reason I can think of that they are in on Eichel is to satisfy Kaprizov. That’s doing the wrong thing for the wrong reason.

Free agency would have had a different approach for BG had those two contracts had been signed. Not knowing kind of hamstrung him I think. At least he didn’t really overspend but we wound up with a lot of sideways moves. Didn’t really make any great improvements and may not have lost ground either. We shall see soon enough I guess.
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Ice Cap wrote:

^^ Perhaps but not necessarily. All BG and the Wild can do is make the offer after that it’s up to the player and his agent. I think the Wild felt they offered Kaprizov a contract they thought was more than fair and expected he would sign it. Russo said today if it would be any other agent this would have been signed at the time of the offering or shortly there after. They are giving him elite NHL player money and terms in the area of Brayden Point and Wersinski without having to prove it like they did. 55 career NHL games against 7 other teams is a small sample size imo. I can’t imagine any other player or any other team offering a 8X9 deal with that number of NHL games under his belt.

I think a 4 or 5 year deal at a lot less money might be a wiser thing for the Wild to do with him at this point.

Disagree. That is not all BG can do. As a GM you have to sell your idea your plan your team your city. In a sense you are a salesmen and it’s his job to convince him and other players this is the place to stay and form your career. There are plenty of other teams that you can go play for and make money it is BG job to convince him and others why Minnesota is the best place for them.

CaptainMusky wrote:

Stu Grimson on NHL Network just thought Fiala would earn 4 to 5 Million on this deal. He must’ve took too many hits to the head.
If it’s that range I will be VERY shocked. I’m thinking 6 but we’ll see. He said comparable was Ehlers which is right where he’s at and then said the 4 to 5 Million? Lol

Ha I just watched that clip and my jaw dropped when the number $4m came out of his mouth. How is he paid to talk about hockey?? Nik Ehlers is a good comp to Fiala, but he was also like 3 years younger when he signed that contract. My guess for a Fiala arb. award is $6.5m-$7m. Still hoping it doesn’t make it there… players that go through arbitration don’t stick with the team. Seems like everyone forgot Fiala was the savior of the franchise less than 12 months ago.

Ripjiggen wrote:

Disagree. That is not all BG can do. As a GM you have to sell your idea your plan your team your city. In a sense you are a salesmen and it’s his job to convince him and other players this is the place to stay and form your career. There are plenty of other teams that you can go play for and make money it is BG job to convince him and others why Minnesota is the best place for them.

Lotta GMBG fanbois right now I really think stems from his charisma and on the heels of a really good season. I’m pretty meh on him, but I’ll admit he’s made some good moves…
Zucker trade, Donato trade, Cole trade, goalie carousel, hiring Judd Brackett, Hartman extension, Foligno extension (he’s probably not with the team right now if he didn’t get extended to start last season… full disclosure, I thought it was too much money at the time). I think those are all clear wins at this point.

His contracts to Spurgeon and Brodin both feel high but not outta line. Hiring Deano looks good so far.

The only real WTF moves I can think of is Staal for Johansson and burning that precious ELC year on Boldy. Suter buyout and Fiala/Kaprizov contracts have the potential to go that direction.

The guys I laugh at are the ones defending or praising every single move he makes. Or better yet, defending the current contracts Fiasco like “OH poor Billy, there’s just nothing more he can do.”

Staal has been terrible the last 2 years, he had a short 4-5 game revival with Perry in the playoffs but that’s it, he’s as slow as they come and will retire, the opportunity to trade him was with Fenton at the deadline 2 years ago…

Johnasson/Bonino were signed with the intention of filling some roster spots during the season and then flipping at the deadline, the problem was the team performed alot better than anticipated and GMBG was forced to keep everyone and see what they could do in the playoffs (selling them off would have had huge negative optics to the players) Johansson not staying healthy (outside of a freaky broken arm injury) didn’t help the optics of that trade…

I’ll bash GMBG when I think he’s made a mistake, but I think sofar he and his team have done a good job with the players & contracts they assumed. They’ve had arguably 2 of the better drafts (on paper and in terms of filling organizational holes) in team history, he’s orchestrated the likely only safe option in terms of dealing with the end of the Parise & Suter contracts and thus ended up protecting 2 extra core players from the expansion draft, though he’s still TBD on how he handles star player contracts with Kaprizov and Fiala, but it’s hard not to argue the Kaprizov deal was going to be extremely complicated no matter who was GM based on his agent’s reputation and 56 game limited but ultimately extremely successful rookie year for Kirill, the Wild have offered the richest contract in franchise history and his agent turned it down immediately…Fiala’s deal is like any other player who thinks his worth is far greater than what the organization thinks, so arbitration is the only alternative to trading/overpaying. IMO I think he overpayed a little bit for Erickson Ek, but as we’ve seen, competent centers are overvalued in the NHL and when you have a young one who’s shown some offensive growth and willing to sign long term, it’s probably a good idea to do so and could turn into a steal if he continues to improve.

The Boldy ELC is a dumb argument, would you feel so much better had he played in the last few regular season & 7 playoff games on the 4th line with limited minutes? Instead they had him play a top 6 role and special teams in Iowa and he flourished, likely building his confidence to earn a spot on the Wild this season. We’ve seen both sides of Boldy’s confidence, the first 4 months of his BC career when he looked like a draft bust and then his dominating success ever since, I’m sure the Wild didn’t want to repeat that when he was signed…

Free Agency was and will continue to be a joke the next 4 years for the Wild, but it honestly should be, if you need to build your team through FA it will bite you in the a$$ down the road when the extra term & no movement clauses needed to sign the upper echelon players turns into capspace anchors for the team. The assumption is the Gologoski High 1 year term, turns into a very favorable 2 year deal with a cheap extension signed after January 1st, the other FA contracts are all 1-2 year terms on low caphits. I didn’t see any overpaying on GMBG’s end (there’s like 8-10 teams right now that are OVER the cap limit and will need to sell off players for pennies on the dollar to get cap complaint by opening night) so he could find a few bargains still this offseason and if Kaprizov & Fiala’s deals come in under the projections, the Wild will have extra cap space to use at the deadline to either acquire players or sell capspace for picks.

There’s still a little more than a months left in this offseason which we knew was going to be extremely tough and a defining one for the GMBG era. I’ll reserve a final offseason grade until opening night…

I think the moves Wild potentially could have made last week would have been a lot different had Foligno made is decision sooner AND one or both of Fiala/Kaprizov had been signed already. BG doesnt have a lot of wiggle room with the uncertainty of those deals.

CaptainMusky wrote:

I think the moves Wild potentially could have made last week would have been a lot different had Foligno made is decision sooner AND one or both of Fiala/Kaprizov had been signed already. BG doesnt have a lot of wiggle room with the uncertainty of those deals.

I agree somewhat, but the level of players signed wouldn’t have been that different due to the cap uncertainty you mentioned. They wouldn’t have spent $4-$5 million on a defender vs the $2 they spent on Kulikov, maybe they would have had a bit more budget to use, but at the $3-$1 million salary level there isn’t much difference in player talent other than name recognition…

JoeMX1825 wrote:

I agree somewhat, but the level of players signed wouldn’t have been that different due to the cap uncertainty you mentioned. They wouldn’t have spent $4-$5 million on a defender vs the $2 they spent on Kulikov, maybe they would have had a bit more budget to use, but at the $3-$1 million salary level there isn’t much difference in player talent other than name recognition…

To be clearer if BG knew Foligno wasn’t coming here and he had a bit more money would he have used it to get Bonino instead of Gaudreau? Going after Cole instead of one of the other D men? Perhaps. 100% correct that it wouldnt have made a huge difference, but Russo even talked about it the other day that the delay in Foligno’s decision impacted what BG ended up getting because some of those guys were gone that he expected them to have interest in. Its not like they could have gotten someone more splashy like you are saying, they still had to deal from the same crop of players.

Surprised how fast players were signing last week. Would have thought the agents would have wanted some of their clients to wait to see if this deal falls through or that deal doesn’t happen and then they have a shot at a little more $$.

Doug M wrote:

Surprised how fast players were signing last week. Would have thought the agents would have wanted some of their clients to wait to see if this deal falls through or that deal doesn’t happen and then they have a shot at a little more $$.

I think there was a lot of “legal” tampering going on. You hear about it being talked about from time to time, but as fast as those deals were coming across the desk there is no way they happened in a couple minutes.

JoeMX1825 wrote:

The Boldy ELC is a dumb argument, would you feel so much better had he played in the last few regular season & 7 playoff games on the 4th line with limited minutes? Instead they had him play a top 6 role and special teams in Iowa and he flourished, likely building his confidence to earn a spot on the Wild this season. We’ve seen both sides of Boldy’s confidence, the first 4 months of his BC career when he looked like a draft bust and then his dominating success ever since, I’m sure the Wild didn’t want to repeat that when he was signed…

Boldy could have played in Iowa without burning the year and then started his ELC beginning the 2021-2022 season. It’s well documented that was Billy G’s preferred option. They clearly had no plan for him to play NHL games, and I’m perfectly fine with that. I’m not fine with them burning the ELC year for nothing, just to keep Boldy happy.

Johansson was one of the team’s worst regular players. That is easily backed up with analytics and he certainly didn’t pass the eye test either, even playing with good linemates most of the year. Staal was traded at the deadline for 2 picks, Johansson was worth absolutely nothing at the deadline. Johansson hasn’t had a full healthy season since like 2016 so some surprise injury isn’t a valid excuse. Now add in that Staal plays a position of need for the Wild and Johansson plays a position they were backlogged in. Johansson also cost over $1m in cap space.

I listed a whole bunch of good moves that GMBG made, yet you focused in on defending the 2 obvious blunders. That’s how you get Billy G Fanboi status.