2021 MN Wild/NHL Thread

Like not triple mortgaging the farm for right now, on a team years away from a cup run as they sit currently.

But…..

What BG “thinks” players are worth and what GM’s are actually paying for them, defines their current market value, like it or not.

If the market continues, and good players want to stay or go to teams that have a chance, KK might not be happy playing with 3rd line centers at best.

The face off percentages last season and the time he spent in our own end was awful. If he knows that’s a trend that’ll continue, no chance he stays without big money and a short term deal. As stingy as BG is looking, and somewhat rightfully so, agree that the KK situation is going to get messy and could sour quickly. With the lack of big time talent on most Minnesota pro teams, especially in the state of hockey with an incredible number of fans energized by KK that have bought a ton of his sweaters, if they don’t sign him and he leaves, the team might be in for a real shocker with the hostility that kills any momentum for building a cup contender. The fans don’t understand all the intricacies of the money, but they’ll sure understand seeing the first great talent the teams seen in years leaving.

Don’t envy BG in this seemingly inflated market and hope teams will be strangling themselves from overvalued contracts and that can be taken advantage of once the reality of blowing up the budget for a lot of teams smacks them in the wallet. But it’s a long term strategy, with very little short term gains. And sports fans can rarely see those types of things.

Man I hope KK stays long-term, but at this point in time it seems like it’ll take a miracle. But who has the cap space that’s a cup contender to sign him, without giving up a butt ton to get him and putting a 4th mortgage on the farm, while selling all the machinery and having no money for seed and fertilizer?

I think KK or his agent (we haven’t heard anything from KK himself) are way ahead of themselves when it comes to where he is as a NHL player. I’ve seen him struggle at times with the size of the rink and the bigger, faster more talented NHL players he’s not used to playing against. There was a marked difference when he was on the power play and had that little extra room.

Does he have the ability to adjust? Absolutely. Will teams around the league adjust to him after he’s been around awhile? Absolutely. As I pointed out earlier 27 goals 18 of which were against the worst teams in the league and six more against Vegas the others were spread between the Blues and the Avs. Once the playoffs came and the intensity ratcheted up the team he had six goals against effectively shut him down.

I’m not quite as starry eyed as most, not just yet anyway. As I see it he’s not in the position to be dictating all the things he seems to be dictating and holding this team hostage. The longer this goes on the more pressure he’s placing on himself and the higher fan expectations are going to be as if they aren’t at the Gretzky level already. Patience is going to get thin before long on both sides.

I will add I think KK would take a much friendlier contract from a more talented big market team. Nick Foligno not coming here had to be a bit of a slap in the face to the Wild. Didn’t go unnoticed by the Kaprizov camp I’m sure.

Nick Foligno took a $3.8 million per season deal, the Wild likely wasn’t anywhere near that, so I wouldn’t put that much into his decision, the whole “play with his brother” thing is a meh to me…

Regarding Kaprizov – Everything we’ve heard about the contract negotiation is SPECULATION, we have no idea what is actually being discussed, this is not a normal negotiation, Yes, he only has 56 NHL games under his belt, but he scored 27 goals and won the rookie of the year award in that time playing with a terrible center most of the season…

Check out these series of videos some Russian fan put together (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCoJayvqn2tysbEXF5uO7xmA) showing all of the opportunities he produces in a game, it’s unreal the offense he generates for himself and for others, oh and many of these videos are against the Golden Knights and Avalanche…

The kid is the real deal and coming into the prime of his career, sure his agent wants to maximize his value and sign the short term deal while the NHL recoups its covid losses and pays back a huge chunk of lost salaries into escrow, that’s what agents are paid to do. This is typical agent posturing and ultimately they will agree upon a 4-5 year deal and at the end of that likely sign the 8 year max extension if the Wild are still a good team with cup credibility… if we’re not, then we trade him away for a ton of assets before losing him to FA.

As always Joe your posts are very reasoned and well put. I’m more of a surface level gut feeling type of analyst. Russo said this morning the Wild topped out at 3 million for Foligno so with BG digging in it wasn’t meant to be. To bad it took most of the day because the Wild could have put that money elsewhere had they known sooner. But sounded like a bidding war between Wild, Avs and the Bruins. Maybe BG should have seen the writing on the wall sooner but it is what it is.

At any rate after this year this team is going to be what it is for the next four years due to the buyouts. Buying out Suter may be the one mistake BG has made so far. That and losing Soucy really put our D in a pinch. He may have been better off sitting on Suter another year or two.
But he knows what we don’t and maybe Suter was going to be a big locker room pain in the ass after Parise was gone. At least this team holds our attention!

JoeMX1825 wrote:

Regarding Kaprizov – Everything we’ve heard about the contract negotiation is SPECULATION, we have no idea what is actually being discussed…

Holy hell, thank you!

If I have to read one more fan blabber how Kirill doesn’t care about money, Kirill just wants to win, Kirill wants a center, Kirill wants to see the plan, Kirill wants this, Kirill wants that. Fans legit think they know this guy inside and out and can see all his deepest dreams and desires. No one has a clue what Kirill wants except for Kirill and his agent.

The only thing we truly know is he wants a short term deal and the team wants long term. Fans all just need to relax and let this negotiation play out. Almost getting as annoying as all the Eichel BS.

Ice Cap wrote:

As always Joe your posts are very reasoned and well put. I’m more of a surface level gut feeling type of analyst. Russo said this morning the Wild topped out at 3 million for Foligno so with BG digging in it wasn’t meant to be. To bad it took most of the day because the Wild could have put that money elsewhere had they known sooner. But sounded like a bidding war between Wild, Avs and the Bruins. Maybe BG should have seen the writing on the wall sooner but it is what it is.

At any rate after this year this team is going to be what it is for the next four years due to the buyouts. Buying out Suter may be the one mistake BG has made so far. That and losing Soucy really put our D in a pinch. He may have been better off sitting on Suter another year or two.
But he knows what we don’t and maybe Suter was going to be a big locker room pain in the ass after Parise was gone. At least this team holds our attention!

I’m not sure unless we get Russo drunk at a bar and have a tape recorder we’ll ever truly know the details of Parise & Suter in the locker room, the team management and former teammates will likely never tell. From a fans perspective, they appeared to be model citizens on the team, but behind the scenes things could have been much different. We’ve all read the rumored issues and typically if there’s smoke, there’s fire. It’s pretty obvious that Parise and Suter didn’t like GMBG coming in and changing everything, so the idea of having 2 pissed off former employees who (if they choose) could screw their old team by filing paperwork to retire early vs the song & dance, LTIR games other players have done to get around the cap recapture penalties and help their former teams was a very real threat.

I think GMBG chose the quick bandaid rip off vs dealing with all of the drama the next 4 years would have brought with the nightly questions around will Parise & Suter play tonight or will they sit in the press box.

We all witnessed Parise’s skillset get worse as the season went on last year and if you go and rewatch alot of the games you can see hints of Suter’s game starting to dropoff as well (especially in the playoffs for Suter) Parise had a huge chip on his shoulder after getting scratched and put everything he had in those 3 playoffs games he played in, the problem is that same effort was missing the 50+ games he played all regular season…
I suspect they will both have good starts to this season in an effort to try and prove everybody wrong, but it’s what their games will look like 2,3,4 years from now is what to really pay attention to, there’s a reason why Parise is rumored to only being offered a 1 year deal by the Islanders, Suter’s 4 year deal just boggles the mind and could become a huge anchor for Dallas that the Wild wanted to avoid by letting him go.

Nashville is the poster child of what the Wild could have been if they didn’t buyout Parise & Suter and instead somehow traded them away (Suter likely would have never waived his NTC) If Shae Weber retires from Montreal next season like is being reported, Nashville is on the hook for $5 million in capspace the next 5 years as a recapture penalty…
I guess we’ll see how it all plays out…

JoeMX1825 wrote:

The kid is the real deal and coming into the prime of his career, sure his agent wants to maximize his value and sign the short term deal while the NHL recoups its covid losses and pays back a huge chunk of lost salaries into escrow, that’s what agents are paid to do. This is typical agent posturing and ultimately they will agree upon a 4-5 year deal and at the end of that likely sign the 8 year max extension if the Wild are still a good team with cup credibility… if we’re not, then we trade him away for a ton of assets before losing him to FA.

100%! I want KK here for the duration of his career, but if he signs a 4 or 5 year deal now and by the end of that the Wild are not a serious contender he deserves to go somewhere that is. I am confident this deal will get done, its just a matter of time. BG’s tune/tone hasn’t changed a bit when asked about it. The guy doesnt flinch. He certainly could have panicked “bought” yesterday and overspent, but he held true. He constantly talks about having “good or smart” people around him that he trusts. This is the sign of a true leader. He was a leader ON the ice and he is leading this organization in which appears to be a promising path.
There are lots of tough decisions and some may not pay off. Russo wrote today about whether or not he could have sought a Suter trade instead of buyout. Sure that may have been possible but if he retired the last year of his previous deal (with the Wild) they would have had a huge recapture penalty. BG was asked if he regretted buying him out yesterday and he quickly responded NO.
It may not have been bad to keep Suter in hindsight now with how things played out yesterday, but I dont blame BG for going that route.

tswoboda wrote:

The only thing we truly know is he wants a short term deal and the team wants long term. Fans all just need to relax and let this negotiation play out. Almost getting as annoying as all the Eichel BS.

OMG isnt that the truth! So tired of the Eichel crap.

I also think Russo and other reporters have done a TERRIBLE job of explaining the current NHL Financial situation and how it effects contracts in the near term due to the Escrow accounts that need to be paid back by player salaries. If they broke down the differences of what a 3-4 deal looks like vs a 7-8 year deal in terms of actual dollars that goes into Kirill’s pocket, I think fans would cut the agent’s some slack for demanding a shorter term deal right now…

As seen yesterday with Brayden Point, signing a potential superstar to a short 3 year bridge deal and then getting him to sign on an 8 year extension can work out as planned (winning 2 cups helps that too though)

JoeMX1825 wrote:

I also think Russo and other reporters have done a TERRIBLE job of explaining the current NHL Financial situation and how it effects contracts in the near term due to the Escrow accounts that need to be paid back by player salaries. If they broke down the differences of what a 3-4 deal looks like vs a 7-8 year deal in terms of actual dollars that goes into Kirill’s pocket, I think fans would cut the agent’s some slack for demanding a shorter term deal right now…

Very valid point, but I wonder how many of them actually know any of the specifics? I’ve seen some mention it in passing, but that’s all it is. Led me to believe that they know its got to happen, but may not have the details to know the how or when.
This is about the best article I found that discusses escrow in detail: https://pittsburghhockeynow.com/nhl-return-explaining-escrow-and-why-players-despise-it/

I might have misspoke a bit, I think the Escrow issue has the impact on the salary cap not going up vs the actual player contracts, even though one effects the other… either way it needs to be explained better to the fans as it’s a missing piece that factors into contract negotiations and might change alot of perspectives of players looking greedy…

JoeMX1825 wrote:

I might have misspoke a bit, I believe the Escrow issue has the impact on the salary cap not going up vs the actual player contracts, even though one effects the other…

Oh gotcha!

I still can’t believe the $$ that was spent yesterday, especially after all of the complaining by GMs regarding the flat cap…

JoeMX1825 wrote:

I still can’t believe the $$ that was spent yesterday, especially after all of the complaining by GMs regarding the flat cap…

Russo said something to the tune of $800M in contracts!? Yowsers!

Also, Suter wrote a “thank you” letter on the players tribune. Very nicely written.

very nice indeed! – https://www.theplayerstribune.com/posts/ryan-suter-minnesota-wild-nhl-hockey-dallas-stars

Wild just signed Jon Merrill. Big body, good skater and cheap contract at 850k.

6’3 205 there’s a little beef for ya!

The letter in the players tribune by Suter was exceptionally classy! Very nice job by Ryan.

There we go. I had heard yesterday we were looking at him but never heard anything else. Not sure he brings a whole lot more to the table than beef but at least we got some.

Krejci going to play in Czech league…….

mahtofire14 wrote:

Krejci going to play in Czech league…….

He still has some tread pretty surprised he is hanging them up. I suppose Boston may not have Cap room for him and he has said it was with Boston or back home.

Thanks for sharing the letter. Definitely something he didn’t have to do, and it even adds a little context if he did, in fact, hang up on whoever called him about the news. Initially it seemed like anger, but the article makes it more like being at a loss of words to say or things to do.

Just finished listening to Russo podcast with LaPanta. They seem to feel Kaprizov needs to take the 8X9 deal or 8.5 at 8 whatever it was or BG walks and Kaprizov stays in Russia. I don’t disagree.

Dan wrote:

Thanks for sharing the letter. Definitely something he didn’t have to do, and it even adds a little context if he did, in fact, hang up on whoever called him about the news. Initially it seemed like anger, but the article makes it more like being at a loss of words to say or things to do.

The Suter letter was very well done, classy move. Especially for a guy that’s taken a ton of heat from MN fans over the last 5+ years.

People made a big deal about the “hang up”, but put yourself in his shoes. How do you react if your boss calls you out of the blue tomorrow and tells you you’re fired over the phone? Now multiply that reaction x1000 as a professional athlete who’s firing is going to be all over the news in the coming days. I’m guessing Suter didn’t have a lot of positive or family friendly words to share at that moment. Sometimes the best thing to say is nothing at all.

Yes he’s still going to get paid, and make even more money now – but he clearly was not thrilled about it ending this way. I take that as a guy that 100% wanted to be a member of the Wild for the rest of his career… so the opposite of Zach Parise right now.

There’s been rumors for years that Suter/Parise were locker room cancer – and the Suter buyout definitely supports that thought. But personally, I’m withholding judgement until the day something is finally published or said publicly on the issue. No one has done that yet to my knowledge.

tswoboda wrote:

There’s been rumors for years that Suter/Parise were locker room cancer – and the Suter buyout definitely supports that thought. But personally, I’m withholding judgement until the day something is finally published or said publicly on the issue. No one has done that yet to my knowledge.

I’ve always been of the thought it was more Parise then Suter, but if something comes out legitimately at some point it will be interesting to know details. The only real thing I have ever heard someone quoted was when Boudreau made a comment about Suter being “uncoachable” and I dont even know what the context it was said in. LOL

Ice Cap wrote:

Just finished listening to Russo podcast with LaPanta. They seem to feel Kaprizov needs to take the 8X9 deal or 8.5 at 8 whatever it was or BG walks and Kaprizov stays in Russia. I don’t disagree.

I listened to it as well, I think this is where GMBG needs to go talk to Kirill in person, layout his offer and explain that the Wild are not going to be pushed around by his agent and that the Wild org and fanbase want Kirill in a Wild jersey for his entire career! He’s being offered the biggest contract in team history all based off 56 games… thats how much they trust and believe in him….

If after a conversation Kirill tells GMBG no dice, then you let him burn 3 years of his prime in the KHL. If GMBG caves to the 3 year deal, every future contract he negotiates the player and agent know he will eventually cave…

I agree Joe. Like Russo said you don’t offer him a 3 or 4 year deal now just out of principle. However part of me says a 4 year deal might be better. Let’s see exactly what he can do on a consistent basis against the rest of the league. I’m not 100% all in on him yet after a shortened season against a truncated number of teams. His playoff performance was very lackluster. If I’m BG I want to see more before record contracts are thrown at him.

The Wild’s brass and scouts seem to think he’s the real deal by offering him 8x$9 million, they are trying to lock him up longer term like the Avalanche did with MacKinnon or Ottawa did with Chabot, it might seem like a high aav the first few years, but it becomes an absolute steal the back half…

I’m now thinking a 6 year deal is most likely, that way both sides feel good about the deal.

tswoboda wrote:

There’s been rumors for years that Suter/Parise were locker room cancer – and the Suter buyout definitely supports that thought. But personally, I’m withholding judgement until the day something is finally published or said publicly on the issue. No one has done that yet to my knowledge.

The problem with these rumors is they follow the typical Minnesota sports fan pattern. We have a player sign a big contract and then suddenly he becomes the worst underperformer in the history of sports. And generally a locker room cancer besides.

Nobody from inside the locker room has ever given any credence to this fan base theory of Suter or Parise being locker room cancers.

Also in looking over the reports from Dallas and New York I don’t find any mention of the risk that these two are potential locker room cancers for their new teams. Generally when a player is known to have personality issues, it comes up in the trade or acquisition talks and is roundly debated in the press.

So Dallas just signed a four-year deal with a known locker room cancer? I don’t think so. This whole thing was just typical Minnesota sports fan BS.

So far the wild have been pretty unimpressive in free agency acquisitions. But then again I’m afraid we better get used to that. Once these buyouts really hit home in 2 and 3 years free agency is probably going to be pretty quiet.

Grouse

Grouse

You actually want to be quiet in FA, its a waste of money….