2021 Lund Crossover Smells of Gas Fumes

ClownColor wrote:

Pressure and temperature are proportionally related. If they pressurized your gas line and sealed it off, and the ambient temp increased through the test, you’d expect the pressure to increase as well…and that’s actually a good sign of a sealed system.

I can appreciate the temperature-pressure relationship. In this particular case, I can’t say the air in the shop was likely changing in any measurable way (test was early morning, boat had been inside since overnight, steady temp during the test). However, I had wondered about the possible impact of removing the fuel from the tank immediately prior to the test.

I’d imagine that fuel, having sit overnight, was a bit of a heat sink while in the tank. Maybe removing the fuel caused the plastic to suddenly start warming to the temp of the air?

If this is par for the course with pressure tests, though, how would one ever know the difference between the following:

A. A good, solid indication of no leak in the system;
B. A faulty gauge;
C. A minor leak that’s causing the tank to lose pressure slower than the change in temp is causing it to gain? (e.g., gain of .1 psi/min due to temp – loss of .05 psi/min due to leak == net gain of .05 psi/min)

Guess I had hoped the pressure test was a much more conclusive test, subject to few, if any, variables. I guess I’ve learned that a pressure test (alone) is not? Or, is there better way to conduct them that improves the ability to interpret the results in reliable fashion?

For those who appreciate pictures more than words, below are some gas leak detector readings from around the boat at different times and conditions over this past weekend. And, this weekend wasn’t particularly hot & sunny near me (in fact it was mostly cloudy & breezy, with only a handful of hazy sun each day).

I’ve pretty much come to the end of my patience with Lund telling me there is not issue and the boat is safe to operate. At this point, I’m asking them to immediately begin replacing parts, since their diagnostics to date (on the order of 2 mo’s) have uncovered nothing.

My initial thought is to replace all gaskets on all tank connections. It’s easy, it’s cheap, and it’s reasonable given that’s where one of the dealer’s and I smelled fuel and that’s where the gas leak detector indicated a stronger presence of fuel during the pressure test.

With respect to the readings shown in the pictures, they’re measurements of %LEL.

“When a substance is in the air in a concentration above its LEL and below the UEL, extreme danger of sudden explosion or flash-over is present…Generally, any level above 25% of the LEL in the open air is considered a hazardous situation. In a confined space, that safe level drops to 10% of the LEL…Example: Gasoline has an LEL of 1.4%, a UEL of 7.6%…In a confined area, above -45 degrees F, gasoline fumes that exceeded .14% of the atmosphere would be considered a hazardous situation and all personnel should be immediately removed. If the gasoline fumes are between 1.4% (14,000 ppm) and 7.6% (76,000 ppm) then any sort of ignition source, i.e. spark of some kind, could cause the atmosphere to ignite or explode,” Worker’s Right-To-Know Law, Chemicals in Workplace.

I purchased a new 2021 Lund 1875 Crossover XS this spring.

Show them your proof and ask for a new boat. Remind them that you have documentation and if anyone gets hurt (or worse) they will be on the hook.

The ball is in their court.

Disappointingly, despite the problem history and the objective diagnostics provided by the gas leak detector, Lund has effectively given me the brush off, stating I need to “work through the dealership from here,” because “the boat has passed the inspection.”

I’m appx. 3-1/2 months in to a brand new Lund, where for nearly the past 2-1/2 months the smell of gas fumes has made the boat unsafe to operate. Apparently, Lund doesn’t see this as having any responsibility here.

In any case, the dealership I’m currently working with has been very accommodating and we’re putting heads together trying to determine the best course of action from here.

I think we’re leaning towards putting some Permatex (I’m not familiar with it) on all the tank fittings to see if that has an impact in reducing the fumes. If it does, then clearly an issue lies among the fittings, gaskets, and/or tank openings. Of course, then we have to proceed in figuring out exactly which part(s) are faulty from there.

What a nightmare!!! Never imagined we’d experience anything like this in purchasing a brand new Lund!

Do you have a kicker? Problem appears to be at your port side primarily, maybe you have a tee installed somewhere for a kicker and it’s leaking?

I think your gas tank is center of the floor, right behind the in-floor storage is that correct for a crossover? then your fill is at port side? Perhaps the fill neck has a leak such that you are saturating some foam when you fill it?

KPE wrote:

Do you have a kicker? Problem appears to be at your port side primarily, maybe you have a tee installed somewhere for a kicker and it’s leaking?

I think your gas tank is center of the floor, right behind the in-floor storage is that correct for a crossover? then your fill is at port side? Perhaps the fill neck has a leak such that you are saturating some foam when you fill it?

Good thoughts and thanks for the suggestions. The boat is rigged for a kicker, but no kicker currently on board. Yes, there’s a T in the hose network for the kicker. Yes, the tank is center, behind the in-floor storage locker and, yes, filler is on the port side.

Everything you suggest seem possible culprits. However, the pattern that has emerged seems to draw attention most to the tank fittings. That’s where noses have smelled fumes and that’s where the gas leak detector has indicated the highest levels of fumes to date.

I think the tie-in between the port-after jumpseat and the higher levels of fumes detected there is that the fill and vent lines pass under the port-aft jumpseat on their way to the fuel compartment.

It makes sense to me that if the fittings are leaking, the fumes building up will escape the tank compartment in highest concentration out the largest opening in that compartment.

I’m guessing that’s the opening those two lines pass through on their way through the area under the port-aft jumpseat. That said, I don’t have a good visual on what that opening looks like, making an assumption here.

The boat is back at the dealer now. They’re going to seal all fittings with Permatex and we’ll see what happens with the fumes from there.

If it measurably reduces/eliminates the fumes, it will be a good indication the problem all along has been the fittings, the gaskets, and/or the tank openings. Not sure how we’ll determine which, other than simply start replacing parts at that point and take it step-by-step until we hit the right ones. Sigh.

Earlier this week, the owner of the shop where the boat currently is made a case against sealing all the fittings with Permatex as they had originally suggested, largely based on the notion that sealing the fittings in that way is a bit of a one-off hack. That is, it’s not factory standard nor an approach Lund would ever recommend in tackling an issue like this. He felt it may be asking for more trouble down the road than it’s worth. I agreed.

Meanwhile, despite corporate Lund telling me last week they were no longer going to help me with this issue, I was contacted by a Lund “Compliance Specialist.” After a bit of back-and-forth in reviewing the problem history, he arranged for a replacement carbon canister (part of the external fuel venting system) to be overnighted to the dealer and authorized them to swap it out. They’re testing a theory that the current canister may be somehow defective. Waiting to hear back from the dealer that the canister has been swapped and then I guess we’ll find out if it has any (hopefully positive) impact on the situation.

Fingers crossed…

Good to read Lund is working with you. Hope this cures it.

After an unexpected delay in Lund shipping the part, it showed up at the dealer today and they did me a HUGE favor in getting it swapped ASAP. I’ll be picking the boat up tonight and we should know over the coming days/week if replacing the carbon canister does in fact alleviate the symptoms.

Despite a fair share of grumbling I may have about how long and uphill it’s been to get to this point, I do have to say that Lund and the dealer did a stand-up job getting this part replaced this week in short order.

Good luck. I couldn’t imagine being in your shoes. I’d be in trouble by now.

I really hope this is the fix. It’s no fun dealing with new boat issues but when they are gas fumes related that increases the angst and pucker factor a few more levels.

That’s really great news, let us know if it worked! Glad to ear the dealer opted not to throw sealant on everything. That’s not the correct solution in most cases but one that’s often used as a last resort.

Great to hear lund is trying!!
If they don’t figure it out I want to see this boat personally.
I will add a dye to the tank that is perfectly safe for all components in the system and track it from there, under pressure,on the water, with a full tank, and on a bumpy road if that’s what it takes.
I can even leave it in a shop with the heat set to 90 overnight,it cannot be that hard to find in my mind.

Wishing you and the dealership the best!!

Disappointingly, I have to report that swapping the carbon canister did not make the smell of fumes go away.

Immediately after the canister was replaced, we took the boat with us on vacation, hoping the issue was resolved. However, we continued to smell the fumes, same as before.

Lund offered to have their local marine inspector take a look at the boat. Unfortunately, we’ve been hit with the cooler temp’s, shorter days, and less intense sunlight that comes with Fall where I live and so the smell of fumes is much less pronounced these days. Without the heat to build up the pressure and really exacerbate the problem, it would be a waste of everyone’s time to press for the inspection at this time.

So, it seems this issue will linger until the boat comes out of winter storage and the hot temp’s return next season.

One final note on the issue…Even though the hot temp’s haven’t been here, I can still smell fumes (much more faintly, of course) in all the same places.

At one point in the past couple/few weeks I opened the fuel compartment and sniffed around all the fittings I could access. Same as before, I smelled fumes around the foremost fitting (I think it’s a sender) and especially around the anti-siphon valve in the filler line (this is the same area fuel was detected way back towards the start at the first dealer I was working through – yet that dealer later recharacterized it as a “very, very, very faint odor of gasoline”).

I’m tempted to just start paying myself to have all the gaskets and that check valve replaced to see if/how that changes the situation. But, my fear is I’ll then be told by Lund it’s somehow no longer their responsibility because things are no longer “factory.”

If I ever find a resolution, I’ll report back in case it’s of benefit to anyone else who experiences the same in the future.

Meanwhile, thanks for all the comments and suggestions. You’ve all been very helpful.