2 lines in the MN open water season?

  • Eelpoutguy
    Farmington, Outing
    Posts: 10656
    #1827202

    Ok, since we are going down the rabbit hole.

    When Red had the <strong class=”ido-tag-strong”>Crappie explosion and everybody and their brother came from all around for Crappies. Did the doubling have lines have any effect or would we have fished it out (as we did) with only one line? Thousands of fisherman equaled thousands of extra lines and thousands of extra fish taken.

    They could have set limits, and they really need to check the locals freezers.
    When I was up there for the Crappie Rush, I would hear the locals brag about limiting out in the morning, going to work then limiting out in the evening.

    biggill
    East Bethel, MN
    Posts: 11321
    #1827205

    Is this assuming the crappie boom ended all because of overfishing?

    FishBlood&RiverMud
    Prescott
    Posts: 6687
    #1827208

    for the Crappie Rush

    A few consecutive years of amazing spawing conditions created that massive school.

    Limits won’t bring it back.

    Dutchboy
    Central Mn.
    Posts: 16822
    #1827211

    So ask yourself how many limits went home south of say St. Cloud? How many fisherman would have traveled from the metro and farther if there was only one line available? Now, turn that to two lines for summer fishing. You will still have your poachers only now they will be doubling their odds. They will be more apt to drive to a hot bite if they can fish multiple lines. You know as well as I do that there are a bunch of guys who fish only if they can limit out.

    This is a tired old discussion that we will be having every year. Because the DNR is smart enough not to cave in to a two line law. It will never pass. And for those who absolutely have to have that second line, just cross the border.

    Eelpoutguy
    Farmington, Outing
    Posts: 10656
    #1827215

    Is this assuming the <strong class=”ido-tag-strong”>crappie boom ended all because of overfishing?

    IMHO, It was a piece of the puzzle.

    basseyes
    Posts: 2571
    #1827216

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>basseyes wrote:</div>
    Joe,

    Do you support 2 lines ice fishing, even with all the advantages of technology? And if so, what’s the difference in your mind?

    Be forewarned, that’s a loaded question.

    Fair question. Only thing I can say is I know how many fish come to my boat and how many come threw the ice.

    When it’s prime time on a summer day I can side scan 5 spots in minutes, then get on the best number of fish and pound em. Through the ice all I can do is guess and wait.

    During the summer one could compare it to a calculated sniper attack and in the winter it’s more like playing the lottery. Again this is just my opinion.

    Some of it’s regionally related and agree, a lot of it’s opinion based.

    One of my favorite lakes to fish, the crappies stack up in the basins late summer and stay there till late winter.

    There’s maybe a few boats fishing those areas from late summer till the ice forms. Guys know the fish are there, but fishing pressure is way less on open water, and 2 lines would have no impact at all on open water.

    Come ice that’s safe enough to drive atv’s, utv’s or sleds and those areas are so stacked full of fishing pressure for 3 months it’s mind boggling. There’s days you can’t fish 2 lines because the action is non stop. Now granted this is for crappies mainly. But the pressure the fish have through the ice far exceeds open water, yet 2 lines are not only allowed, but can’t be a mute point to the volume of pressure when it’s basically doubled because of having the option of 2 lines.

    Point being, pressure is more important to a resource factually based vs opinion bases. My opinion it is hard to regulate pressure through regulations, other than limits. But limits cannot regulate angling hours of pressure and hooking morality on deep basin’s, where people are catching and releasing fish from 30+ fow.

    2 lines are still allowed, pressure far surpasses open water, yet people are acclimated to the use of 2 lines, in an ethical quandary of deep basin fishing, releasing fish that we all know their air bladders are bursting and that fish is dead going down the hole.

    There’s lots of tentacles to the 2 line debate.

    For me personally, I support 2 lines for both open water and over the ice. Yet see the ethical dilemmas for both.

    In Oklahoma fishing, saw guys totally utilizing multiple lines, like 6 or 8 per person. At first I thought it was insanity. But it’s what they are acclimated to regionally for regulations.

    If there’s factually based science behind it being detrimental to the resource, I’m fine staying at the status quo. But if it’s more over just a traditionally based regulation, holding onto socially acceptance, I cringe a bit.

    The border waters get fished extremely hard and still allow 2 lines.

    Have used 2 lines where legal and it’s a nice option to have. But most guys wouldn’t be using 2 lines every day, all day if it were legal. It would just be a nice option to have.

    Imo the GPS and mapping software, combined with all the electronics and underwater cameras have hit the resource way harder than 2 lines ever could in most instances.

    Totally respect and understand your concerns and opinions with 2 lines. I have the same concerns with basin fishing vulnerable fish through the ice, with the ability to camp on those areas by large groups of anglers, in comfortable, heated houses decked to the nines for extended periods of time.

    Dutchboy
    Central Mn.
    Posts: 16822
    #1827217

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>eelpoutguy wrote:</div>
    for the <em class=”ido-tag-em”>Crappie Rush

    A few consecutive years of amazing spawing conditions created that massive school.

    Limits won’t bring it back.

    Red being closed did it.

    Is this assuming the <strong class=”ido-tag-strong”>crappie boom ended all because of overfishing?

    Nice including the word “all”. Makes it a very arguable point. If you don’t understand it I can’t and won’t explain it to you.

    Eelpoutguy
    Farmington, Outing
    Posts: 10656
    #1827218

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>eelpoutguy wrote:</div>
    for the <em class=”ido-tag-em”>Crappie Rush

    A few consecutive years of amazing spawing conditions created that massive school.

    Limits won’t bring it back.

    The Crappie Rush had nothing to do with walleye population being decimated?

    mplspug
    Palmetto, Florida
    Posts: 25026
    #1827220

    Doubling lines is not going to result in double the fish being caught. It will result in a negligible increase in fish being caught and or harvested.

    Dutchboy
    Central Mn.
    Posts: 16822
    #1827221

    Double…….no of course not. But to say it won’t have a effect is to also believe no Walleyes are being harvested on Mille Lacs in those 100’s (or is it 1000’s) of wheelhouses.

    Eelpoutguy
    Farmington, Outing
    Posts: 10656
    #1827222

    Doubling lines is not going to result in double the fish being caught. It will result in a negligible increase in fish being caught and or harvested.

    X2 – especially with how I fish. doah

    biggill
    East Bethel, MN
    Posts: 11321
    #1827224

    Nice including the word “all”. Makes it a very arguable point. If you don’t understand it I can’t and won’t explain it to you.

    You’re the one who brought it up in the context of overfishing. Take out the word all and you have the exact same statement.

    jime
    Posts: 144
    #1827225

    The earth is Flat.
    Many of you go to SD fishing because…the fishing is
    good.
    Season is open year around.
    Two lines allowed.

    Iowa is the same, except the Great Lakes,
    2 lines plus you can buy an additional.

    Minnesota….the Land of 10,000 “Flat Earth” thinkers !!

    tweed

    Terny
    Posts: 23
    #1827228

    2 lines open water and 4 through the ice. Reduce the eye limit to 4.

    Amen – works for most other States south Dakota Wisconsin Iowa also Ontario Canada

    Terny
    Posts: 23
    #1827229

    The earth is Flat.
    Many of you go to SD fishing because…the fishing is
    good.
    Season is open year around.
    Two lines allowed.

    Iowa is the same, except the Great Lakes,
    2 lines plus you can buy an additional.

    Minnesota….the Land of 10,000 “Flat Earth” thinkers !!

    tweed

    peace

    gim
    Plymouth, MN
    Posts: 17868
    #1827230

    Ingebrightsen was doing what is constituents wanted. Stopping musky stocking if the county didn’t want it. I guess that’s why he was reelected…to be a clown.

    Ya, that’s him. Clown indeed. He’s the guy that claims the muskies eat all of his constituent’s walleye/panfish and tried to privatize rules in Otter Tail County. The truth is that both he and his constituents can’t catch them so they’re trying to blame muskies. Now he’s trying to make it easier. He’s nothing but a meat hunter that continues to fail.

    zooks
    Posts: 922
    #1827231

    Doubling lines is not going to result in double the fish being caught. It will result in a negligible increase in fish being caught and or harvested.

    2 lines open water and 4 through the ice. Reduce the eye limit to 4.

    I’m right here for both of these takes.

    I’ve fished two lines per person trolling crankbaits since I was a kid the late 80’s and find all the pearl clutching about number of lines allowed hilarious.

    Legally allowed limits and/or fishing pressure have a way bigger impact than how many lines a person is allowed at any time and having more lines is not going to impact how many fish get taken out of any body of water.

    If you’re on a hot bite, you’re gonna get your limit the same if you have 1 or 2 or more lines in the water but you can be more efficient with your time while fishing with 2 or more lines. I’ve also been on good walleye bites where we’ve had to reel in lines cause we couldn’t keep up, both with bobbers and while trolling. Remember – just because you can, doesn’t mean you should or you will.

    Reducing limits lowers fishing pressure by keeping fish in the water and out of the livewell because pressure = harvest, not angling hours.

    Statewide walleye limit of 4 fish with one over 18″ would eliminate 90% of special reg lakes and has been proven to make fisheries healthier.

    biggill
    East Bethel, MN
    Posts: 11321
    #1827233

    Statewide walleye limit of 4 fish with one over 18″ would eliminate 90% of special reg lakes and has been proven to make fisheries healthier.

    And will do nothing for the lakes without natural reproduction. The health of a put-and-take lake is dictated by the number of walleyes you can afford to cram in there.

    mojogunter
    Posts: 3317
    #1827235

    I think that guys are giving the average angler way too much credit for their ability to catch fish. The vast majority of anglers have no clue where to start, and follow the crowds or listen to radio chatter on bigger lakes. I wish I could catch fish like what is being portrayed here.

    jeff_huberty
    Inactive
    Posts: 4941
    #1827249

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Dutchboy wrote:</div>
    Nice including the word “all”. Makes it a very arguable point. If you don’t understand it I can’t and won’t explain it to you.

    You’re the one who brought it up in the context of overfishing. Take out the word all and you have the exact same statement.

    The Red lake Crappie run is proof that if there is no regulation, there is no lake that would be safe from over harvest.

    bobberstop4054
    Posts: 178
    #1827252

    keep my limit every time I can usually takes me 24 hours to get my 10 crappies

    buckybadger
    Upper Midwest
    Posts: 8395
    #1827256

    I think that guys are giving the average angler way too much credit for their ability to catch fish. The vast majority of anglers have no clue where to start, and follow the crowds or listen to radio chatter on bigger lakes. I wish I could catch fish like what is being portrayed here.

    ^This.

    90% of the crowd here is nothing more than an average angler at best (myself included). A keyboard and a forum username doesn’t make anyone a professional angler or a marine biologist.

    Personally, I fish mainly border waters and this proposal isn’t going to impact me. I do troll quite a bit and always fish 2 lines while trolling. I do hook-up some doubles when I’m alone sometimes. However, quickly slowing the boat and constantly tending to lines generally makes this a non-issue and I can release fish without problems. Pitching plastics, vertical jigging, dragging jigs, etc. are all tactics where I’m using 1 line most of the time even when I could legally use more.

    I don’t want the Governor making a single decision on their own gut feeling about natural resource regulations. The MNDNR is in-place for a reason. Let them do their jobs. Sign-off on bills and regulation changes that are supported by the people who are trained in that area. None of our Governors or Congressmen/women are daily practicing biologists or CO’s. Neither are 99% of the people on this board. Without a major stance one way or the other on this topic, I prefer we error on the side of proactively protecting resources with regulations supported by science. I cannot cite any specific studies that lean one way or another on the 2 vs. 1 line regulation. Therefore, my opinion is not 100% formed and I’ll just continue to laugh at the outlandish arguments coffee

    Feelings aside, I don’t think there’s much of a chance this passes. It’s destined to be lumped with some other bills/packages/pork that will steer it toward a sure demise for another legislative session

    blank
    Posts: 1786
    #1827258

    Amen Bucky!

    Eelpoutguy
    Farmington, Outing
    Posts: 10656
    #1827267

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>mojogunter wrote:</div>
    I think that guys are giving the average angler way too much credit for their ability to catch fish. The vast majority of anglers have no clue where to start, and follow the crowds or listen to radio chatter on bigger lakes. I wish I could catch fish like what is being portrayed here.

    ^This.

    90% of the crowd here is nothing more than an average angler at best (myself included). A keyboard and a forum username doesn’t make anyone a professional angler or a marine biologist.

    Personally, I fish mainly border waters and this proposal isn’t going to impact me. I do troll quite a bit and always fish 2 lines while trolling. I do hook-up some doubles when I’m alone sometimes. However, quickly slowing the boat and constantly tending to lines generally makes this a non-issue and I can release fish without problems. Pitching plastics, vertical jigging, dragging jigs, etc. are all tactics where I’m using 1 line most of the time even when I could legally use more.

    I don’t want the Governor making a single decision on their own gut feeling about natural resource regulations. The MNDNR is in-place for a reason. Let them do their jobs. Sign-off on bills and regulation changes that are supported by the people who are trained in that area. None of our Governors or Congressmen/women are daily practicing biologists or CO’s. Neither are 99% of the people on this board. Without a major stance one way or the other on this topic, I prefer we error on the side of proactively protecting resources with regulations supported by science. I cannot cite any specific studies that lean one way or another on the 2 vs. 1 line regulation. Therefore, my opinion is not 100% formed and I’ll just continue to laugh at the outlandish arguments coffee

    Feelings aside, I don’t think there’s much of a chance this passes. It’s destined to be lumped with some other bills/packages/pork that will steer it toward a sure demise for another legislative session

    I laugh at that outlandish statement.
    Just like Gay Marriage, Booze on Sundays and soon to be Weed.

    Now please pass the Popcorn.

    biggill
    East Bethel, MN
    Posts: 11321
    #1827276

    The Red lake Crappie run is proof that if there is no regulation, there is no lake that would be safe from over harvest.

    It is not proof. Prove it!

    The boom itself is an anomaly. You can’t possibly believe an anomaly correcting itself is proof of overfishing.

    buckybadger
    Upper Midwest
    Posts: 8395
    #1827278

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>buckybadger wrote:</div>

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>mojogunter wrote:</div>
    I think that guys are giving the average angler way too much credit for their ability to catch fish. The vast majority of anglers have no clue where to start, and follow the crowds or listen to radio chatter on bigger lakes. I wish I could catch fish like what is being portrayed here.

    ^This.

    90% of the crowd here is nothing more than an average angler at best (myself included). A keyboard and a forum username doesn’t make anyone a professional angler or a marine biologist.

    Personally, I fish mainly border waters and this proposal isn’t going to impact me. I do troll quite a bit and always fish 2 lines while trolling. I do hook-up some doubles when I’m alone sometimes. However, quickly slowing the boat and constantly tending to lines generally makes this a non-issue and I can release fish without problems. Pitching plastics, vertical jigging, dragging jigs, etc. are all tactics where I’m using 1 line most of the time even when I could legally use more.

    I don’t want the Governor making a single decision on their own gut feeling about natural resource regulations. The MNDNR is in-place for a reason. Let them do their jobs. Sign-off on bills and regulation changes that are supported by the people who are trained in that area. None of our Governors or Congressmen/women are daily practicing biologists or CO’s. Neither are 99% of the people on this board. Without a major stance one way or the other on this topic, I prefer we error on the side of proactively protecting resources with regulations supported by science. I cannot cite any specific studies that lean one way or another on the 2 vs. 1 line regulation. Therefore, my opinion is not 100% formed and I’ll just continue to laugh at the outlandish arguments coffee

    Feelings aside, I don’t think there’s much of a chance this passes. It’s destined to be lumped with some other bills/packages/pork that will steer it toward a sure demise for another legislative session

    I laugh at that outlandish statement.
    Just like Gay Marriage, Booze on Sundays and soon to be Weed.

    Now please pass the Popcorn.

    I could be 100% wrong and it wouldn’t bother me in the least bit. My wager is that it won’t pass. The nature of the bill itself won’t be the biggest issue most likely, rather the crap it is packaged with.

    zooks
    Posts: 922
    #1827279

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>zooks wrote:</div>
    Statewide walleye limit of 4 fish with one over 18″ would eliminate 90% of special reg lakes and has been proven to make fisheries healthier.

    And will do nothing for the lakes without natural reproduction. The health of a put-and-take lake is dictated by the number of <strong class=”ido-tag-strong”>walleyes you can afford to cram in there.

    Well sure because I should have worded it “make those special regs fisheries healthier” but it was at the end of a long rant and ya know…

    Most people that read up on it know there’s a management difference for those put and take lakes and IMO a lower limit won’t hurt those lakes and if anything would change how they get stocked/managed going forward.

    And I agree with mojo on his point, too – I’m an average angler on my best day and usually struggle to find fish because I’m not on the water a lot, which is the main reason anglers don’t catch all the fish every time they go out. The stuff people worry about with two lines and over-harvest is really at the tail end of the bell curve of possibilities and should be accounted for as such.

    philtickelson
    Inactive
    Mahtomedi, MN
    Posts: 1678
    #1827280

    The outcome would not be linear, it would be exponential, and catastrophic. I will use myself as an example to explain to you laymens.

    On an average day shore fishing, I will catch between 60-90 fish an hour, this is with one rod. Using two rods allows me to utilize multiple presentations, often times working in tandem together. I’ve proven through my numerous youtube videos that it’s quite elementary to mimic a small school of baitfish by using 9-12 rods at once. This takes a bit of practice, but the results are astounding. Even moreso when those rods are using umbrella rigs.

    Based on my preliminary findings, this would up my catch to an astounding 400-575 fish per hour. Again, this is from shore on a non-ideal spot. Put me in a boat with modern electronics(I normally sidescan around 700 spots per minute), and there’s a multiplicative effect. The numbers aren’t exact, but after sampling this technique a few times I’ve found my catch rates follow a surprisingly normal distribution with a mean at 2,250 fish per hour and a standard deviation of 100 fish. That is to say, I’m ~95% confident that I’ll catch between 2050 – 2450 fish per hour.

    Now, I’m not an animal, I only keep 5% of what I catch, but because of the exponential nature of this increase, I’d be clearing out lakes in days instead of the months it currently takes me.

    Keeping in mind that I’m an average fishermen at best, put this capability in the hands of some of the truly exceptional outdoorsmen who frequent this board, and I’m confident that doubling the number of lines will result in the complete decimation of the walleye population of Mille Lacs Lake by 2016. In fact, I predict that anglers won’t even be allowed to keep fish in that lake for multiple years after.

    I think the only solution is to actually reduce the number of lines anglers can use by 250%.

    jeff_huberty
    Inactive
    Posts: 4941
    #1827293

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>jeff_huberty wrote:</div>
    The Red lake Crappie run is proof that if there is no regulation, there is no lake that would be safe from over harvest.

    It is not proof. Prove it!

    The boom itself is an anomaly. You can’t possibly believe an anomaly correcting itself is proof of overfishing.

    Just a couple things to mull over.

    Stunted Sunfish, Crappie or Perch…and the Reason is? = Over harvest? or not? give away a panfish Honey hole, how many will be on your spot and how long will your spot produce.

    Or lets just imagine next MAY 11th the DNR opens an unfettered walleye season on Mille Lacs lake, with no regulations, it is simply an Individuals choice to harvest only what they need.
    How would that work out?

    Red Lake was a fine historical era that showed their is no constraint among people when an abundance of any commodity is useful to the masses.

    coffee

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